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True Vintage racing is (not so) slowly becoming impossible


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#26 SlotStox#53

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:12 PM

Any useable drop arm is a good one and those Nutley ones look amazing :heart:

For replicas, clones and vintage style these are going to be perfect! Definitely a market for them.
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#27 havlicek

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:48 AM

To be clear(er), just "vintage building" with these motors (let alone doing anything else with them) is becoming impossible.  As good and even "important" as collecting them is (*and it IS), it has also driven the cost of what parts remain towards "stoopid".  When the building stops, we get a little closer to losing the history and even the interest in the history.  "WE" all know that the hobby is unique.  It has fostered an interest in engineering, building and just plain old "hands-on" activities with all sorts of people young and old.  In the age of passive mouse-clicking and staring at computer screens, that's no small thing.


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#28 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:03 AM

Would it be possible to resin cast replacement enbells? I know that model car resin caster can make some rather complicated parts

 

Yes, provided the resin has suitable characteristics (structural stability, toughness, heat resistance, etc.)  But the "fly in the ointment" is not the resin, it's the mold; making any kind of a decent mold will be quite expensive.



#29 raisin27

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:17 PM

I have made molds and done some resin casting of model car parts with nothing more than the part to be copied, some lego bricks to build a "tub" and some liquid silicone. The parts were not quite as intricate as a Mabuchi endbell but some were close and I am by no means an expert caster.


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#30 Gator Bob

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:20 PM

What temp filament would be needed for endbells?


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#31 olescratch

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:21 PM

In the process of casting car bodies, the material that is used to make the molds could be used to make molds for endbells if you think about it.  Now how durable the material used to make the endbell itself would be the issue, in my opinion.  The amount of heat that the casting would stand, along with the other issue of available hardware, only add to the fact that the vintage well is running/ran dry!


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#32 Dave Crevie

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:43 PM

The method used by home 3-D printers, which use a low temp plastic filament, are not good for making endbells. Although

this has been hashed out before on this site, I will repeat that the powder medium printers are the best bet for making end-

bells in low volumes. You can even get medium to produce aluminum endbells.   



#33 Mbloes

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:25 PM

Is Mura 2 hole "C" can stuff considered scarce?  I don't really track its availability because I've got a ton of it.

 

 

c can.jpg

 


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#34 havlicek

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 07:04 PM

Is Mura 2 hole "C" can stuff considered scarce?  I don't really track its availability because I've got a ton of it.

 

 

attachicon.gifc can.jpg

 

 

 

Well, the end bell is made from a far better material Mike, so they have stayed around better than the Mabuchis.  I have "some", but not that much and would be happy to lighten your load! :)


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#35 havlicek

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 07:11 PM

Two Russkit "22" motors reborn.  The one on the right is a 55/29 headed for European racing, and that wind is about as hot as makes any sense.  The one on the left is a 65/30, which will make for a fast and fun motor... MUCH faster and smoother than the original.  On both motors, the can got the same prep.  Blind bushing replaced with a 2mm x 5mm through bushing.  Magnets have been shimmed .004" per side, and together with the larger diameter .518" arms (*as opposed to the Mabuchi ,500") represents better than a .026" reduction in airgap.  Magnets set with a slug and epoxied-in.  Both end bells got similar upgrading, one with Parma hardware and one with Mura hardware.  Both arms go out for a very light grind and balance.

IMG_2302.JPG


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#36 MSwiss

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:02 PM

Is Mura 2 hole "C" can stuff considered scarce?  I don't really track its availability because I've got a ton of it.

 

 

attachicon.gifc can.jpg

 

Mike,

FWIW, Andrew Brown Searle, of AB Slotsport, is looking for a quantity of the Mura 2 hole C cans, I'm guessing for the awesome Tottenham Sports class, they run at their Retro events.

 

Contact him if you are looking to unload any.


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#37 Mbloes

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:23 PM

Is Mura 2 hole "C" can stuff considered scarce?  I don't really track its availability because I've got a ton of it.

 

 

 

Ha, well, I wasn't really thinking of selling anything, but just by these two responses it looks as though it is getting a bit scarce.


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#38 MSwiss

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:33 PM

I guess if a ton is what makes you feel comfortable, hold on to all of it.


Mike Swiss
 
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#39 Samiam

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:34 PM

Is Mura 2 hole "C" can stuff considered scarce?  I don't really track its availability because I've got a ton of it.

I never met a Green Can I didn't like. :)


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#40 Bill from NH

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:17 PM

Is Mura 2 hole "C" can stuff considered scarce? 

 

 

Mike, I wouldn't call them scarce, but they are getting more difficult to find in good shape. On the other hand, the Champion C-can is scarce & has been since about 1975. 


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#41 don.siegel

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:53 AM

John

 

Man does not live by Mabuchi alone! 

 

Yes, maybe endbells are beginning to be scarce, but vintage comprises a heck of a lot more motors than cans! Just counting all the Pittman DC706s and Strombecker Destroyers floating around, not to mention the Kemtron X503, we can go vintage racing till the cows come home, or all the babyboomers die off, whichever comes first. (There are also a lot of faster open frame motors around by the way.)

 

What you're talking about is a very specific segment of vintage racing, ie, the higher-performance class. If you want to race with stock Revell SP500s, there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of those! 

 

As explained above, there's a (relatively) healthy vintage racing scene in Europe, but we've also lost a few events in the past few years. I now make it to Bordo twice a year, and have started again going to Double Trouble in England - the latter is a good example, because they have a special Big Birds event on Saturday, for 50s GP cars with frame motors, and 60s GPs with any period motor you want, then the usual 1/32 and 1/24 classes on Sunday, again with open motor choice, as long as it's period. No shortage of motors I can see, but every year a few more endbells go up in smoke (mine was a Dynamic GE Silver Hornet earlier this year). 

 

The sky is not falling, just a little part of it. 

 

Don 


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#42 havlicek

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:15 PM

 

 

Man does not live by Mabuchi alone!  Yes, maybe endbells are beginning to be scarce

 

     Ha!  Hi Don, well, this one does (*pretty much).  I pretty much have stopped working on open frame motors, especially 5 poles.  Even the three poles with their nasty habit of the magnets going flat when you take them apart is a PITA.  Yes I know, I'm a regular low life.  :)  

 

 

 

"Beginning" to get scarce?  Yikes, any scarcer and they'd be unobtanium!


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#43 don.siegel

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 05:33 AM

Yes, I understand that John, I'm just saying that your title is a bit misleading: it's not the end of vintage racing, just a particular part of it is endangered in a sense.

 

Don  


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#44 havlicek

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:19 AM

Yes, I understand that John, I'm just saying that your title is a bit misleading: it's not the end of vintage racing, just a particular part of it is endangered in a sense.

 

Don  

 

Of course you are correct Don!  I understand that a lot of vintage racing (*and building for that matter) doesn't involve the early Mabuchi can motors.  While the title here could be misleading, I think my first post clarifies what I'm referring to well enough.  The can motors quickly took-over the racing field, but Mabuchi's design (*and more importantly, materials) were self-limiting.  The motors were doomed to fail, and as people pushed them harder, they only failed faster.  These end bells now are really scarce, and even if you find them, they're just as doomed now as they were then.

***Interestingly, even the Mura 2-hole C can motor is now getting close to 50 years old (*I think).  While those motors are much more likely to survive, they don't seem to actually get raced or even just "run" in regular vintage events from what I understand, but I may be wrong about that.  Even those don't seem as plentiful today as they were just a few years back.  None of this is meant to be "chicken-little" type "the sky is falling" alarmism.  Just what I've noticed.

Eventually I may have to only build new(er) motors...YIKES!  THE SKY IS FALLING!!!  :D


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#45 Mbloes

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:28 AM

 

***Interestingly, even the Mura 2-hole C can motor is now getting close to 50 years old (*I think).  While those motors are much more likely to survive, they don't seem to actually get raced or even just "run" in regular vintage events from what I understand, but I may be wrong about that. 

 

My take is that the two hole C can is going to be the A / B can of the future.  It was all we used when I raced "box stock" or "production" classes, which is why I now have a nice inventory.  I actually had the (accidental) foresight to keep stuff and not get rid of everything like I did in "Slot cars - Phase I".

 

 

Also, great post, Don.


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#46 Mbloes

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:21 PM

 

Mike, I wouldn't call them scarce, but they are getting more difficult to find in good shape. On the other hand, the Champion C-can is scarce & has been since about 1975. 

 

Bill, I don't know if you ebay, but there is an old Champion slot dude there - Rob Renninger - who literally has a ton of Champion inventory.  Right now, he has 18 C cans listed - 3 lots of 6.  I don't know what they go for, but he always has these listed.


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#47 Dallas Racer

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 04:26 PM

John, if FT16D Mabuchi's are getting scarce, maybe the remaining motors should be preserved and not modded? Then again, maybe at this point nobody really cares.


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#48 havlicek

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 04:40 PM

John, if FT16D Mabuchi's are getting scarce, maybe the remaining motors should be preserved and not modded? Then again, maybe at this point nobody really cares.


Nah Phil.  I'm sure there are plenty of fairly untouched ones out there.  I gotta make sure there are plenty of ones "touched" by me!  ;)


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#49 Samiam

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:04 PM

Phil,

 

  Even back in the day, these stock motors didn't stay that way for long. As soon as I was old enough to get near a soldering iron I was "touching" these motors.First dewinding, then some early re-winding attempts.But then I started racing at Roy Crawley's Phaze lll and we raced Green Can Muras and Parma 16-Ds. Never looked back. Now I am back to some re-winding attempts. Unfortunately I am no better at it today as I was when I was 12 years old. :scratch_one-s_head: 

 

But don't worry about John defiling all the virgin motors out there. He stays busy with his motors going to all corners of the world, but even if he lives to be 400 years old he still won't come close to "touching" all of them. Many will stay safe in the motor bays of NIB and MIB slot cars in the collections of Slot Heads all over the world.


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#50 Dallas Racer

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 10:45 AM

Alright gentlemen. That makes sense. Never mind. :good:


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