Jump to content




Photo

1914 Peugeot GP at auction car brings...


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,497 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:34 PM

US$7.260 million!
 
1914 Peugeot L45 Grand Prix two-seater

 

peugeot.jpg

 

Whatever you want to say about the late Lindley Bothwell, he knew his cars!


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap





#2 Dave Crevie

Dave Crevie

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 09

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:13 PM

It's about time the pre-WWI GP cars got some recognition at the auctions. Lately most of the ones that have come up for sale have not broken the million dollar ceiling. In fact, there haven't been that many pre-war racecars offered lately. 

 

Interesting that the mention the Charlatans, that group of Peugeot designers who operated on their own separate from the factory, but used the company name. Henry Adamson often told a story about them that was quite amusing, but far too long to relate here. 


  • Cheater likes this

#3 Mattb

Mattb

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,138 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IN

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:19 PM

Probably not the same motor, but a Peugeot engine was bought and taken apart and the famous Offenhauser engine was based on the early Puegeot engine.


  • munter likes this
Matt Bishop

Vintage Cox Slot Cars

#4 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,497 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:21 PM

I suspect there are many (mostly younger) members here who don't know anything about Le Charlatans, or Ernest Henry.
 
Here's a link that might help to explain why that 1914 Peugeot brought so much money.
 
1912/13 Peugeot GP Car: Especially its Engines…


  • Half Fast likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#5 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,497 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:34 PM

Probably not the same motor, but a Peugeot engine was bought and taken apart and the famous Offenhauser engine was based on the early Puegeot engine.


Matt, your story line is a little inaccurate in detail.

Famous racer Bob Burman had a 1913 Peugeot GP car he was racing on the west coast and when it threw a rod, he took the car/engine to Harry Miller's machine shop in LA (which at that time was making mostly racing pistons and carburetors) for repair.

That's where Miller was exposed to the ground-breaking (and pretty much world-beating) design of the Peugeot engine. Miller based his first engine design in 1916 on what he saw in the Peugeot GP engine in 1915 while he was rebuilding (reconstructing actually, as it was heavily damaged) Burman's engine.

Fred Offenhauser was Miller's plant manager in later years, having begun working at Miller's shop in 1913. When Harry Miller went bankrupt in 1933, Offenhauser bought most of the tools and patterns and continued to produce the basic Miller engine designs under the Offenhauser name.

Both men were hugely helped by probably the finest engine designer America has ever produced: Leo Goosen.

Harry Miller’s first masterpiece, a SOHC 16-Valve – Four Cylinder Engine

 

miller.jpg


  • justDave likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#6 Dave Crevie

Dave Crevie

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 09

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:52 PM

Pretty good, Greg. I am impressed!


  • Cheater likes this

#7 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,497 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:08 PM

Racing, and specifially Miller, in that timeframe is a particular interest of mine...


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#8 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,297 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:34 PM

In-car communication.

 

comm (1).jpg


Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#9 Mattb

Mattb

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,138 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IN

Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:12 AM

Greg,

 

My Offy book is on loan right now but I have read it twice. I thought sure it says that Miller actually bought an engine. It's a big book with lots of facts and it's possible I am wrong, it does happen, every few years.

 

This is a great book about the history of maybe the best designed American engine for 50 years or so. Also, all the people involved and the great talent of Leo Goosen, who did all the design work for lots of racing engines and parts.    

 

mb


Matt Bishop

Vintage Cox Slot Cars

#10 Dave Crevie

Dave Crevie

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 09

Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:46 PM

Greg,

 

Mine, too. As well as Frank Kurtis and the Duesenberg brothers.

 

There was so much innovation during this period of time. It is so amazing that so much of it was forgotten and only lately revisited on production cars. 



#11 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,497 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:13 PM

Matt,

 

No worries. I probably have nearly a dozen books on Miller and Offenhauser, starting with one it took me a long time to acquire, Mark Dees' "Miller Dynasty," and one of my all-time favorite books, Griffith Borgeson's "The Golden Age of the American Racing Car," which is bought when I was in seventh or eighth grade.

 

The story as I related it in my post #5 is recounted in enough separate books that I think it is fairly accurate.


  • Mattb likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,497 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:45 PM

Just for jollies, Matt, here's a pic from Gordon Eliot White's "The Marvelous Mechanical Designs of Harry A. Miller."

 

burman.jpg

 

This is Bob Burman himself looking the the repaired engine in his Peugeot racer. Miller seemingly had to cast another cylinder block, so he put Burman's name on it.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#13 Mattb

Mattb

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,138 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IN

Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:03 PM

I believe you, Greg. I was just going to refer back to my book, and re-read that part of the story. I just thought that I read they bought the blown motor or car and studied the design intently and based the Offy design on it.

The White book I have has so many names, dates, places, facts, and figures in it that a casual reading every year or two makes a lot of the history kind of hazy!!
 
offy.jpg
 
Gordon Eliot White
Matt Bishop

Vintage Cox Slot Cars





Electric Dreams Online Shop