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Joel Montague '73 Nats replica powered by Havlicek Mura


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:36 PM

I finally decided on the perfect build for this Havlicek 21T/25 monster blue Mura motor -

my friend Capt. Rick paved the way by building a super-fine one a decade ago:

 

http://slotblog.net/...73-nats-winner/

 

Joel used a Champion can but I think my Mura will work fine.

First thing I'm gonna need is a pair of Lancer Porsche 917's.

A good re-pop would be OK for me. Any ideas?


Paul Wolcott




#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:48 PM

Contact Ron Hershman, Outasite has both the Lancer open-cockpit Porsche & the Lancer Porsche coupe bodies.

 

FYI The hole on a Camen droparm is the same size as that on a Parma droparm, but it is further back. IIRC, it's 1/16" back.


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#3 dc-65x

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:17 PM

Hi Pablo,

 

Boy my old thread brings back memories. That is one car I wish I had back. Joel was really looking over my shoulder and guiding me on that build.


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#4 Pablo

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:41 PM

Thanks Rick and Bill :)


Paul Wolcott

#5 Samiam

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:16 PM

WOW!  Nice choice for a build subject. I'll be watching and taking notes.

 

                                    :paint2: :popcorm1:


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:31 PM

No need for notes, Sam, just follow the master dc-65x thread :)

Here is the motor :aggressive:

 

IMG_7476.JPG

 

IMG_7482.JPG

 

Found the perfect wheels :sun_bespectacled:

 

IMG_7492.JPG

 

 


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Paul Wolcott

#7 grooverunner

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:40 PM

Need Drop Arm ?

 

PM sent


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Ken  Hill

#8 Pablo

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:16 PM

I sure do, Ken :)  PM returned.


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#9 Pablo

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:46 AM

Wow, today was my lucky day - went from scratching my head wondering which way to go, to having a firm plan and parts ;)

-Porsche 917 bodies on order from Outisight

-Aguirre-style custom dc-65x front wheels with O-rings installed for an OD of .650

-Telescoping style custom dc-65x rear wheels and natural rubber donuts glued and ready

-found a (good, used) 41T 64P bronze spur and a (new) 8T Sonic straight steel pinion

-second (more conservative) gearing choice - 7/38 Sonic gears on order

-grooverunner has my drop arm needs covered :dance3:


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Paul Wolcott

#10 Pablo

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:58 AM

I noticed Capt. Rick's track test results were typical big HP motor with no glue - violent wheelspin.

His was geared 8/42 with 13/16 OD wheels, and orange donuts.

 

I remember some sage advice from World Champion Greg Gilbert when I had the same situation with a super wild Mura in my Batmobile. It would simply spin the wheels at first touch of the trigger. He suggested dropping a tooth on the pinion.

I questioned it by saying "the acceleration needs to be tamed and you want me to gear it for more acceleration?"

He just winked and said "Try it". I did and it worked :)

 

That's why I may use the 7/38. I'm also going to use a grippier tire compound - natural rubber - in hopes of hooking it up.

We shall see,,,,


Paul Wolcott

#11 dc-65x

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:03 AM

Hi Pablo,  :wave:

 

I gave up with the fresh orange vintage tires and open motor cars on a light spray glue track. Now I use the orange tires for show and whatever modern rubber the track likes for go.

 

 

-Aguirre-style custom dc-65x front wheels with O-rings installed for an OD of .650

 

In the Oakland Speedway treasure-trove PRO slot car stash, the Aguirre front O-rings were often found with small flats having been ground down to .625". Just a tidbit for your information.


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#12 Bill from NH

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:09 AM

Orange rubber "in the day" was typically used with full glue & also when glue zones were used.  Today, most tracks use spray glue, that's why different rubber & different gearing works. 'In the day" 7T 64 pitch pinions did not exist.

 

I use to cut o-ring fronts to a true 5/8" with my lathe. 


Bill Fernald
 

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#13 Pablo

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:30 PM

-Aguirre front O-rings trimmed and trued to .628

-Jet Flag blueprinted, faced, shaft trimmed and threaded for a nut like Joel's, and dyed blue

-donuts mounted on the Limpach replica hubs

 

IMG_7517.JPG


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#14 Mike Patterson

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:54 PM

I think the guide should be purple, whether it's historically accurate or not.


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#15 dc-65x

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:06 PM

I bet Joel would think everything should be purple! :D  :dance3:


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#16 Bill from NH

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:17 PM

When Camen use to issue paper catalog sheets, they were printed in a bold purple ink on a lighter colored purple paper. A friend who has stayed overnight at Joel's VA home told me his beds have purple sheets & pillow cases & he wore purple pajamas.  :)


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Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#17 Pablo

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:12 PM

I didn't know it had to be purple. Sorry for posting it.


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#18 Pablo

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 07:43 PM

Piano wire "Tinning Party" was long overdue here at The Wolcott Ranch.
A tip for those of you who want your wires to lay absolutely flat on a block:
Check individual pieces for straightness with a dial indicator.

 

Some bent pieces can be cut (bad spots removed) and saved as short pieces for things like uprights, braces, etc. Save the best long straight lengths as main rails.

Lately, .055 wire from K & S has been the worst. I've thrown away entire batches of it.
Both the supplier and the manufacturer deny there is a problem.
Occasionally I'll find a piece of .063 that doesn't pass muster, but lately it's all the .055 that's bad.

 

Now I have clean, straight, tinned wires of all sizes ready to rock :)

 

IMG_7518.JPG
 


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:23 PM

"Drop arm" from grooverunner arrived today - looks great :dance3:

It's accurate, dead flat, and tongue rise is .063.

As my dad used to say, "Just what the doctor ordered" :good: :good: :good:

 

IMG_7520.JPG


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#20 Pablo

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:41 PM

Body hasn't arrived yet, so I did some prep on the "drop arm".

Used a 3/16" OD chainsaw file to slightly open and smooth flag shaft hole.

Both rotating surfaces on tongue faced and all edges including the cutout area sanded.

 

This is a quality product and it didn't take much work. Flag stops in exactly the same places as an original.

Tongue angle checked with Tongue Tweeker - spot on level, both fore/aft and left/right :good:

 

My "shakey-shakey" (dc-65x called his a "clicker" :) ) is .032 thick

 

IMG_7525.JPG


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:49 PM

My "shakey-shakey" is done. I took advantage of the fact this car isn't intended to be an exact replica by making slight changes to the design as I see fit. As a mechanic, I simply cannot resist attempting to make things better. I doubt Joel would disagree with that :) The design and placement of the wires on the original car is, however, a beautiful thing :good:

Wires are .039. It droops a little, lifts a little, and horizontal movements are about 15 thou all 'round.
I don't consider the numbers to be an exact science at all

 

IMG_7539.JPG

My upstop wires don't bend and meet the rails or the axle tube because I consider it overkill - the shakey isn't a stressed member and doesn't perform a critical function. What it does, in my opinion, is provide a perfect place for a piece of lead if the tuner desires :dance3:

 

IMG_7537.JPG


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:19 PM

Beautiful Porsche 917 in 10 thou Lexan® from Outisight has landed at The Ranch :)

 

IMG_7685.JPG


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#23 grooverunner

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:57 PM

:popcorm1:


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 06:38 PM

Waiting for one more key part to arrive in the mail, possibly tomorrow....


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#25 Pablo

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:55 PM

A (rough) mock up of the wheels, drop arm, flag, and body says:

WB 3 7/8

GL 7/8

Chassis pan width 3.150

 

IMG_7805.JPG

 

Using dc-65x's build thread as a guide, I think I'm on track.

 

Or if I'm not, hopefully someone who has never built one will surface and tell me how I should have done it.

 

If the spur arrives tomorrow, I'll soon be busy as a beaver :yahoo:


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:00 PM

Spur gear will probably arrive tomorrow....meanwhile, I'm anxious  :D

 

This would be impossible for me without dc-65x's thread.

I truly appreciate the history, and I'm grateful dc-65x rose above it all and kept it alive.

 

I soldered some pieces onto grooverunner's masterpiece "drop arm" tonight.

Just laying the pieces down and soldering them is easy. But doing it "right" takes a lot of work. I hope I nailed it :D

 

IMG_7813.JPG

 

 

 


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#27 Pablo

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:31 AM

Still waiting on the Faas gear, but trust me, it's coming :D

Meanwhile, I did a test run on painting an open cockpit Porsche 917 - good thing I bought several  :dance3:

 

Just so happens this body is legal for a flexi class I race, so I used this one as a pre-test just to see:

-what the colors would look like - Parma White and Model Master Grape Pearl

-how it will trim and mount for the Joel car, air control, spoiler, and clear things like the motor, flag, wheels, etc.

 

I put inside decals on the test body but they are just to gussy it up for flexi racing.

Both white and purple worked fine - gave me a chance to see how they work as far as PSI, backup, coverage, etc

 

IMG_7817.JPG


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#28 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 06:35 PM

It's beginning to look like Christmas - got the 42 Faas in the mail, and UPS brought a box of holiday Omaha Steaks  :dance3:

Special thanks to the undisclosed gear donor, and it bears repeating, without good friends this would be impossible :friends:

 

Standard rear axle mock up to determine tube length, using all the actual parts. Looks like about 1.235" :)

 

IMG_7842.JPG


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#29 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 07:03 PM

Poor Man's lathe (electric drill), a Dremel with 409 cutoff wheel, 400 and 2,000 grit sandpapers.

Ends are perfectly concentric and polished

 

IMG_7847.JPG


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#30 Samiam

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 08:25 PM

You're a thou over. :D


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#31 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 09:00 PM

That's the beauty of cheap digital calipers, Sam, I can vary the measurement by a thou or two :curtsey:

 

My plan here is to solder home the new ball bearings from the start, and simply keep them clean.

I notched the tubes in 4 places to allow solder to flow.

I'll use silver solder so the joints won't melt when I apply 60/40 nearby to attach chassis wires n whatnot.

 

IMG_7851.JPG


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:33 PM

Tubing centered, gear and jig blocks in place

 

IMG_7865.JPG

 

IMG_7855.JPG

 

Next step will be notching the tube to get the motor in tight as possible :)


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#33 olescratch

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 07:47 PM

Looking good! You can't help but learn from these tutorials, and there are many of us that will admit to needing tutoring!  What keeps the solder from getting into the bearings?


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 07:58 PM

Good question, John, I'll try and remember to explain that when I solder them.

 

What good is a jig motor if it isn't exactly the same as the real motor? Not much.

Trimming the tube and setting the motor angle to fit the jig motor, then realizing the real motor won't fit, sucks.

 

To preclude that from happening, I did the best I could by:

-using exactly the same brand and size pinion on both

-ensuring the length from can end to pinion is exactly the same (Krazy Glued both pinions in place temporarily)

-Krazy Gluing a junk magnet in the jig can to emulate the real motor's magnet setup

 

IMG_7867.JPG

 

Here's another thing that sucks - making a perfect axle tube, planning the notch, cutting it and realizing it's not perfect.

This time I made a rough aluminum tube, put some old BB's in it, and jigged it up as a test mule for the notching.

If I screw one up I'll just toss it until I succeed, then make an identical cut to the good one :)

 

IMG_7872.JPG


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#35 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 10:47 PM

The final tube notch cut

 

IMG_7887.JPG

 

Jig motor snuggled right in there nice n tight

 

IMG_7875.JPG


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 11:58 PM

Looking good! You can't help but learn from these tutorials, and there are many of us that will admit to needing tutoring!  What keeps the solder from getting into the bearings?

 

Soldering ball bearings can be tricky.

I always apply ATF in a needle oiler bottle wherever I don't want acid and solder to flow

 

IMG_7889.JPG


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#37 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 12:47 AM

The Koford M333 solder flowed nice.

Merry Christmas and Good Night :D

 

IMG_7894.JPG


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#38 Jairus

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 12:51 AM

Looking great! Night. :thank_you2:


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#39 bluecars

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:25 AM

How do you keep the bearings from being contaminated when tumbling at the end?


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#40 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:37 AM

Contaminated by what? BB's come out of my tumbler absolutely perfect every time.


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#41 tonyp

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 01:53 PM

I go over my race cars after each race reset the front axle and tumble with no issues.


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#42 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:22 PM

My grooverunner drop arm seemed longer than the Camen part Capt. Rick used.

I measured an "888" arm at 2.633" from the coined edge to the back, so I trimmed mine.

If it's not historically perfect, I don't mind, and I don't consider it a critical measurement

 

IMG_7899.JPG


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#43 olescratch

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:08 PM

Thanks for the reply.  Seems like I got the answers to a couple more issues that may come up.


John Stewart

#44 grooverunner

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:35 PM

Paul,

You are right to trim it .I make them longer on the back end so you can trim them to any length you my need. Think 4 1/2'' chassis.

 

Ken


Ken  Hill

#45 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:52 PM

Cool, thanks Ken. It's working out perfectly for me.


Paul Wolcott

#46 Pablo

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 08:22 PM

Of all the intricate wire work in the rear end, this 3 bend piece is probably the most critical to get right.

It mandates the motor attachment position - get it wrong and things aren't going to fit.

 

This is the situation I touched on earlier about the importance of being able to slip the actual motor in for a check.

Never assume if the jig motor shoehorns in, all is OK.

 

I cheated a little by using .055 wire - easier to bend and it allowed me to keep the motor as far left as possible

 

IMG_7902.JPG


Paul Wolcott

#47 Pablo

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 08:51 PM

Tack and a check. Yup, it's tight but it's perfect

 

IMG_7920.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#48 Pablo

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 10:05 PM

Finally I can get the rare 45+ year old Gunther Faas gear out away from the "acid party" and polish it.

It's not something you can just walk down to your local slot shop and grab another one

 

IMG_7925.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#49 Pablo

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:31 AM

My rear end is done :)

 

IMG_7933.JPG

 

IMG_7935.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#50 dc-65x

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:04 PM

Nice rear end Pablo........ :o...............I mean great looking center section Pablo  :laugh2: 


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