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Hawk 7 two-speed "wall" syndrome


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#201 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:47 AM


I disagree Mike.. Rob does spend quite a bit of time here lately on the bigger tracks racing flexi's with both PSFK and RH motors.

Rob and I speak a lot… Well.. Mostly Rob talking and myself listening and throwing in a “ah bullshit Rob” every now and again. But he truly loves the euro sport cars and is busting his butt trying to keep it together so he has a place to race and to get trigger time leading into his yearly vacation at the Worlds. If there was a flat track near me, I’d be doing the very same.

He does have a rub with the JK motors, as we say it don’t really matter what you pay they are still junk. But he is spending more time with some flexi cars on the larger tracks and doing quite well. I've raced retro with him quite a few times and he had a ball. I showed him the limited tweaks on the PSFK’s, and he’s off and running them in flexi cars, again having fun. He’s just old school and feels when you buy something no matter the cost, it should work. And it bugs him that it isn’t that way. I can’t argue with that.


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#202 MSwiss

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 09:49 AM

Frankie,
Retro racing has grown with those "junk" motors.

It wouldn't of grown with $100 motors, like Rob contends.

You and him can ignore results like this, all you want, but when the 7 of us were standing there, between heats, well into the race, all on the same lap, or a lap back, we sure as heck, weren't commenting "This really sucks, us racing our $10-$30 worth of handouts".

1) Howie Ursaner - 295 laps, best time of 4.669 in blue
2) Ralph Thorne - 294, 4.647 in blue
3) Kevin VanPelt - 294, 4.581 in blue
4) Ross Scharf - 293, 4.651 in blue
5) Greg Fox - 293, 4.646 in blue
6) Mike Swiss - 292, 4.673 in orange
7) Joe "Noose" Neumeister - 292, 4.643 in green
8) Bernie Schatz - 241, 4.886 in blue
9) Les Chase - 16, 4.699 in green
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#203 Samiam

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 09:54 AM

Frankie,

Yeah, that may all be true, but we can do without the condescending posts like this:

Dr. Jim Jones gave me this.

 

 

kool-aid-1_u2phl6.jpg

 

Now I understand.  Don't question anything, FK love is the answer

 

hypnotizing-018.gif

He can comment all he wants about the motors. Where he crosses the line is when he comments on the racers who use them.


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#204 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:14 AM

Mr. A - The motors suck.

Mr. B - No they don't, the racing is good. See they all are the same.

 

Mr. A - Logic then says, They all suck.

Mr. B - No they don't, all the 'Top' guys love them.

 

 

 

OMG   -


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#205 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:45 AM

I don't disagree Sam...
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#206 Samiam

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:26 AM

Scenario at "BIG" built motor race:

 

Racer A: "OK, you guys ready?"

Racer B: "Yeah, Joe are you ready?"

Racer C: "Yeah, I'm ready, let's go guys"

 

Race director: 'OK guys, no marshals so it's all track calls. Power on in 3-2-1..."

 

     :laugh2:

 

Scenario at last Retro race I was at:

 

Race director: "OK guys, lane choices for the " I " main...."

 

     :D


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Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
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#207 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:21 PM

Sam,

I guess that's funny.

 

Since you brought up BIG built motors here when I was speaking to 'production motors', why didn't you send that BIG36D drag car to the proxy as promised?


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#208 Danny Zona

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:58 PM

Scenario at "BIG" built motor race:
 
Racer A: "OK, you guys ready?"
Racer B: "Yeah, Joe are you ready?"
Racer C: "Yeah, I'm ready, let's go guys"
 
Race director: 'OK guys, no marshals so it's all track calls. Power on in 3-2-1..."
 
     :laugh2:
 
Scenario at last Retro race I was at:
 
Race director: "OK guys, lane choices for the " I " main...."
 
     :D

Participation like this is why I now mainly race IRRA races.

I can't say I love the FK motors but I don't hate them.

I do love a lot of racers participating at races. IRRA races seem to have a lot of it from what I see.

I also love the stiff competition and the camaraderie I've experienced at IRRA races. Tons of fun.

I laugh at the people who knock a certain type of racing. Especially when it has a lot of racers participating and involved.

Envy is a hell of an emotion and apparent with some of the posts.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#209 Samiam

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:03 PM

Never could find proper gears Bob.

 

Let's face it. When the Deathstar died there was a void that needed to be filled. The PS 4000 series sealed motors and the various closed can FK style motors filled it. These things are powering all sorts of cars in weekly racing everywhere. They even inspired an entirely new class in Wing car racing. The so called "$100 Wing Car" class. Great entry level car to bolster the ranks at Wing events. There are still just as many built motor classes out there. Vote with your entry fees. It's a free country. (deleted-violation of TOU) 


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#210 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:12 PM

Danny, I agree that Retro rocks, but this is about FK 'production' motors...  

Envy? Hmmm ... maybe if someone was making ~10 bucks per motor and you guys would buy thousands... yup, I would 'envy' that guy.

 

Sam, Gears? that is a friggin' lame excuse.


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#211 Danny Zona

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:36 PM

Danny, I agree that Retro rocks, but this is about FK 'production' motors...  
Envy? Hmmm ... maybe if someone was making ~10 bucks per motor and you guys would buy thousands... yup, I would 'envy' that guy.
 
Sam, Gears? that is a friggin' lame excuse.


Can't say I love FK motors but I don't hate them. I deal with them.

I do know FL flexi series uses them and participation has been solid. Flexi National Series uses them and participation has been solid. I'm planning on going to a few next year and heard the same from a few racers.

I'm not sure what motor selection would be better than what we already use? Any suggestions. I'm not sure what luck you have with motors or races you participate in? Just wondering, buddy. I like suggestions and healthy discussion.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#212 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:47 PM

They Are used everywhere but in my little brain, in my opinion, IMO,FWIW, IIRC the whole deal doesn't pass the smell test or make me think FK motors are Good..

 

Suggestions you ask -

 

Start here.

 

Turn the brushes 90 deg.

Use a heavier (thicker) beryllium spring arm

Non magnetic bushings

No vent holes

And a pair of those GBob terminal connectors in every bag.


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#213 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:39 PM

So many people want to reinvent the wheel. It is a $13.00 motor for crying out loud, and it does a pretty descent job. On top of that it is very very hard to tamper with and has that reputation as well. (That's a good thing.) 

 

The sport is not what it was in the run what you brung days.

 

On top of that we are way off the starting topic.


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#214 Samiam

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:54 PM

Good suggestions for improvements Bob. Next time Tim is overseas maybe he'll suggest it to them. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Chinese to make these production changes for such a tiny portion of their total output. Frankly I'm surprised they bother with our little toy race car motors.


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#215 tonyp

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:11 PM

You nailed it. We are too small for them to care.


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#216 Danny Zona

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:14 PM

They Are used everywhere but in my little brain, in my opinion, IMO,FWIW, IIRC the whole deal doesn't pass the smell test or make me think FK motors are Good..
 
Suggestions you ask -
 
Start here.
 
Turn the brushes 90 deg.
Use a heavier (thicker) beryllium spring arm
Non magnetic bushings
No vent holes
And a pair of those GBob terminal connectors in every bag.

Very good suggestions.

Now I wonder if it is even possible?

Maybe a manufacturer can invest and make it happen.

Until then we have what we have. Not perfect but participation is real good so far in racing series that use the FK motors.

The biggest moans and groans seem to come from non-participants. Maybe they don't participate because of the motor.

Who knows?

I do know actually particpatiing at races and taking action goes a long way with racers when an idea is suggested.

Just a thought. I could be wrong.😎
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#217 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:39 PM

The brush orientation was done on purpose to guarantee startup.
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#218 jimht

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:50 PM

Thoughts relevant to the ongoing discussion since I posted last time...

 

Everything that's done to motors to make them more reliable or more consistent or faster also makes them cost more.

 

Everything that a racer is allowed to do to improve a motor will also be done by a manufacturer at a higher cost.

 

Whether the cost of one motor is $13 or $500, neither will satisfy the person who wants two.

 

If someone has fun tinkering with motors they need to get together with those who have the same fetish instead of trying to convince the uncaring that they're missing out on something special.

 

Hardly anyone on earth that races some sort of vehicle (big or little) enjoys the labor and hassle involved with powering said vehicles.


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#219 jimht

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:14 PM

"Guys Will pay for it if it's better, or spec'ed/promoted as hard as the current motors are.. "

 

Please supply the data/facts/surveys that support this statement.


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#220 Danny Zona

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:56 PM

It's not that you don't have any cred because you don't go to big races or local races, Gator Bob.

I believe everyone should have an opinion including you.

You have let the slot world know how you feel. Look at the amount of Gator Bob posts in this thread alone.

Is it about overall post counts or actually a healthy discussion on how to improve on the FK motor?

I like some of your ideas. They are good ones. It's just easier said than done.

I just don't understand why the need for post after post of beating a dead horse. Beat all you want but the horse is still dead at the end of the day.

Especially when participation in racing series are doing pretty damn good with this motor.

The FK motors aren't perfect by any means but what motor is better? I do know actual testing and racing can help with ideas on how the motor can be improved.

Not hearsay and assumptions.


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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#221 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:08 PM

I get the impression it is not about improving the motor that we have but more about running it down.

 

Just my take.


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#222 Cheater

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:00 PM

Enough already. 
 
Gator Bob, sorry, but you haven't done what you promised when I allowed you again to post here at Slotblog. Your 'human sacrifice' inferences are over the line and offensive to me and several others.
 
Bye-bye, Bob.
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