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American Line Iso H-Power 36D monster


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 07:36 PM

I won this monster at auction on Slotblog, from the Tom Scott collection.

Received it today and was pretty happy. No doubt I can make this into a nice car :)

 

IMG_7559.JPG

 

IMG_7558.JPG

 

Here was the writeup:

"I can't remember where I got this Iso-fulcrum chassis which was planned for a hardbody Dodge Ramcharger body but never did end up getting it finished. The chassis is almost a drop-in for just about any static model 1/24 model car... sedan type.
The motor is by John Havlicek, a built-to-the-hilt Champion 36D.
Beautiful front American mags. Nice rear stocker tires that are still real soft and give great traction."

 

Let's see what we have here:

American Line 1927 Model T Chassis center section with custom ISO outer section
WB 4 5/8" (!!)
GL negative 3/16"
Widths < 2 3/4" front and rear
Wheel OD's front 1", rear 1 1/8"
Clearance, approximately, rear 1/8", front 3/32"
Weight: 213 grams (sans body) (!!)

Motor: H Power 36D 65T of 29
Gears: 10/36, brass pinion/Wilson's crown

 

Chassis workmanship is expert quality. I'm guessing maybe Jack Beers was the builder, but who knows?

 

The ISO section is a nice work of art and quality engineering:

-Twin .063 plates connected via 3/32" square brass tubing

-Countersunk body mount holes

-Double ISO Fulcrum hinges at the rear

-Adjustable wheelbase up front

-Custom front axle assembly strengthened with wire wraps

 

IMG_7546.JPG

 

IMG_7557.JPG

 

Motor: you can't go wrong with a Havlicek powerplant - it won't need anything :dance3:

 

That's the good. Here is the bad:

-Clearance - mile high in the rear, half a mile in front. Both ends need to go down, and be level.

Currently the flag is plowing, giving a nice car the kiss of death for handling.

-All four tires are badly out of round due to age.

-As much as I like the ISO outer section, it's way too heavy and only serves to make the front wheels dig in to the track.

Maybe I can just lighten it.

-Gearing is way wrong; 10/36 with 1 1/8" OD rears with a custom 65T/29 motor isn't even close.

Also, this powerful of a motor needs a steel pinion and a better crown. Wilson's crowns and brass pinions worked OK with stock 1966 motors but won't cut the mustard here.

 

All of this is correctable, and I look forward to finding a good body for it :D


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Paul Wolcott




#2 Pablo

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 08:30 PM

How about this body? 4 3/8" WB, width about 3"

 

IMG_7566.JPG

 

What is it, anybody know for sure?

Billy Watson pulled it, so I'm sure he knows :)

 

If I did go with this, I'd remove the outer ISO section and save it for a hardbody in the future.

Then copy the engineering features of it to make a shorter, lighter version to fit this body.

 

Just thinking out loud......at this point......


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#3 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 09:55 PM

I bought one off Billy a few years back painted all black.  Billy called it a 1934 Ford.  Just a suggestion:  what about a silver-grey body with black fenders?  Or possible cranberry-grey combo


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#4 Tom Katsanis

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 10:59 PM

Body looks like a 34 ford 3 window looks similar to the dubro one but has a chop top think zz top eliminator coupe it looks like it will be a cool build.
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#5 Pablo

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:41 PM

Thank you, gentlemen, it must be a '34 Ford then.

 

Tim, thanks for the color recommendations :)

Tom, ZZTop chopped roof? That would be cool...... :good:


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#6 havlicek

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:25 AM

Neat to see one of my early rewinds again, and even neater to see it nestling in such a cool car.  Good score Pablo...fire up the iron and have at it!


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#7 Don Weaver

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:32 AM

You haven't done a HARDBODY before.


Don Weaver
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#8 Pablo

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:12 AM

I know. Hardbodies scare me and I wouldn't even know how to begin. This car already weighs 213 grams........

I'll think about it. Thanks Don :)


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#9 Samiam

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:16 AM

Pablo,

Do you have any Michael's(craft) stores by you? Good place to snag a model with a 40% off coupon.


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#10 Don Weaver

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

JK has some "discountinued" hardbodies that are single piece and made of from material similiar to "La Cucarachas", i.e. tupperware.  And they are cheap!


Don Weaver
The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
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#11 SlotStox#53

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:13 AM

JK has some "discountinued" hardbodies that are single piece and made of from material similiar to "La Cucarachas", i.e. tupperware.  And they are cheap!

Didn't know JK did hardbodies, will have to investigate. Plus I like cheap !

Great score on the car Pablo, looks cool already. Gonna be fun watching your modifications come to life :D

#12 Don Weaver

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:26 AM

Paul,

 

They don't "do" them - just have some Revell Snap-Tite kits for sale.


Don Weaver
The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
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#13 Pablo

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:28 AM

Thanks guys :good:

 

Yes, I have a Michaels and I have coupons, thanks, Sam.

The length of the center section is a hair under 4 1/2" axle to flag shaft.

So it was probably designed for a 4" WB.

If I buy a 1/24 hard body at Michales, can I assume the WB will be 4" and support a GL of about 1/2" ?

 

Don, a search on JK website gives no results, and I don't see hardbodies on PCH website, either.

 

Wouldn't buying a kit at Michaels be kind of like Pelosi saying "you have to buy it and open it to find out what's in it" ?? :)


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#14 Don Weaver

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:51 AM

Pablo-

 

Look under "Closeouts".  They make great hardbodies because they a one piece and unbreakable.....


Don Weaver
The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
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#15 Pablo

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 12:10 PM

I see a Revell kit, but no photo, and zero details.

A Google search for "CL85-1316 Revell Hard Body Kit Cheerios #26" reveals nothing for me.

So I'm right back where I started - gotta buy something and open it to find out if it's gonna work ^_^

 

The clear Ford body option is looking better.....


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#16 Jaeger Team

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 02:04 PM

interesting JK closeout

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#17 Don Weaver

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:29 PM

Have some good looking NASCAR's too.  Yours for a cool ten dollar bill!


Don Weaver
The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
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#18 Pablo

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 06:57 PM

That's weird, the closeout JK page wasn't showing any of that for me this morning.

Now all of a sudden when I go there, it's in Spanish, and all sorts of hardbody Revell kits appear :shok: :)

I guess I have entered the Twilight Zone :laugh2:

 

Anyway, I like those Revell bodies and I'd love to put one on this car, BUT, again, how do I know the dimensions?

If this was a custom chassis build, it wouldn't be a problem. But it HAS to fit this chassis.


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:07 PM

These wheels are sweet, but fronts and rears don't match.

Anybody know what brand they are, and where I can buy another pair of the American Mag type?

 

IMG_7574.JPG

 

I diasassembled the motor for a cleaning and a checkup.

All it needed was a little TLC with a new can/EB attachment screw up top

 

IMG_7577.JPG


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#20 olescratch

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

interesting JK closeout

Is there any scale identification listed for these?  I don't see anything on the box!


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:44 AM

Thanks to Don for showing me a photo of his JK Revell bodied anglewinder scratchbuilt car.

It's a 4.5" WB with "some" normal ("positive") GL, looks like at least 1/2".

So this chassis will not work with those hardbodies.

 

Glad I got that out of my system :)

I'll do one some day, but not this time.


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:38 PM

Found some matching front wheels - Cox American Mags shod with EJ's #15 front tires

 

IMG_7583.JPG

 

Rear wheels will have Parma Tuna donuts mounted.

Parts gathering is done.

 

Planning phase:

 

The Tom Scott chassis will be set aside for a future project. It needs a body with a long WB requiring negative GL.

For now, I'll use it as inspiration and guidance for my own ISO outer section.

I happen to have another center section, and I'll custom build it for the body :)

 

IMG_7579.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#23 Pablo

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:52 PM

Center section sanded flat. Tongue Tweeker used to give the tongue a very slight up tilt.

Rotating flag surfaces faced with Magnehone

 

IMG_7587.JPG

 

Slick 7 racing bushings precisely aligned and soldered in

 

IMG_7595.JPG


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:05 PM

I realize now the American Mags were just inserts.

When I lacquer thinnered them to slide the donuts on, the paint melted :laugh2:

Doesn't change the fact they are perfect rear wheels - I can find inserts for them later.

 

I dug out the truest Cox 39T I had and mated it with a 9T brass pinion.

Shortened, bored, polished, and soldered on.

I'd have preferred steel, but couldn't find any in 3/32 bore.

 

The rears will end up about 1.015" OD after a final trim, giving a 4.27 Final Drive Ratio.

Much better than the original 3.20 :)

 

IMG_7600.JPG


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#25 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:20 PM

Hi Pablo,

First off, congrats on winning the Monster! I think the builder's ISO design is an outstanding example of what one can do to repurpose the classic American line chassis.
Mounting the front axle to clear the guide and any sort of body other than an old Ford has always been a challenge.
Public info now, I'm stealing some of those ideas! 😉

I also like that the wheelbase is adjustable. In answer to one of your initial questions regarding any standards of wheelbase, model kits are scaled from the real thing with some license so there are many variations from kit to kit, mfr to mfr, not to mention 1/25 vs 1/24 Scales!

Same can be said for rocker to rocker width of hard plastic bodys, which can vary from 2.25" for smaller sports cars up to 3.25" for larger GTP's. Each and every one is generally different by a few fractions of an inch unless you stick within a mfr's series, say like the older AMT NASCAR kits where their chassis' are all the same with only a different body.

As is, and as the portfolio eludes to, I'd say any Full size or muscle car 1/25 Lindberg, Revell or AMT kit of your choice would fit with little mods. Be mindful that type of body mount does require you glue some wood or plastic blocks inside the body in order to have a place to install machine screw thread inserts, and you want to install said inserts blind so the screws bottom out allowing the body to wiggle a little.

Weight down low on a Hardbody is desirable. One of the quickest GTP's on BPR's flat track is over 200 grams.

Keith Tanaka has built cars with negative guide lead and believes it is not as bad as most would traditionally think.

Best of fun either way you choose☺
Bruce W. Frye

#26 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:35 PM

-Please clarify "GTP" hardbody?? They make those?

GTP starting grid from BPR's most recent monthly race series

These are all based on 1/24 Tamiya, Hasagawa or Fujimi model kits. Most are typically 3.25" wide with flat rockers, so easy to convert to slot cars.

Check out Keith Tanaka's SoCal D3 website and race reports in the 1/24 Racing forum for more examples and links to rules etc.
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#27 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:36 PM

.

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#28 Pablo

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:40 PM

My plan has changed somewhat. The center section is extremely heavy, but the body is lightweight.

I doubt adding pans on this car will provide any benefit, but I can add some later if needed.

 

Front wheels are torsioned via .055" wires soldered to the center section 1/4" amidships

 

IMG_7609.JPG

 

Body mounts are .063 tubes installed and held with retainers through .078 holes in the chassis - little bit of wiggle and slop

 

IMG_7615.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#29 olescratch

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 02:00 AM

Always filled with interesting examples of craftsmanship!  Nice!


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#30 Pablo

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:46 PM

Thanks, John :)

 

Rear body tubes cut and keepered to make room for the motor.

Wires installed and motor secured front and rear.

 

IMG_7626.JPG

 

As a precaution to ensure nothing got bound up tightening 'er down, I gave the motor a test.

She sounds fine and draws exactly the same amps at 3 volts she did during breakin :)


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Paul Wolcott

#31 Pablo

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:21 PM

Assembly is "roughly" complete and ready for track test Saturday.

Rear wheel inserts, body paint, tuning changes, etc. will come later.

 

Drivetrain test with the vintage gears was OK, not great - I can see the Cox crown distort as I apply power.

It was never designed for this much power. It may be just fine on the track - we shall see.

If it's noisy, I'll make changes until it's perfect.

 

IMG_7632.JPG

 

My front wheel torsion assembly seems to do exactly what I wanted -

as I give the car a slight twist, the wheels lift yet apply some resistance.

 

Jet Flag is secured via a (genuine) Cobra Phase III weight.

TQ 20 gauge lead wires, old school clips, and JK soft braids

 

IMG_7639.JPG

 

IMG_7646.JPG

 


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Paul Wolcott

#32 Pablo

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:45 PM

Track test results -

the good:

-handling is amazingly good; no doubt the tonnage helps, along with the torsion fronts and floating body mounts

-motor ran sweet and it scoots pretty good for a brick

-zero deslots after about 20 laps

-had fun chasing Billy Watson's Kemtron '34 Ford around

 

the bad:

-I missed the gearing somewhat - and the Cox is noisy - so I will be changing to a (dyed) 35T Parma Pink

-Billy made me a thicker body with 20 thou - the current one is too flimsy for such a heavy car


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Paul Wolcott

#33 havlicek

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:43 AM

 

 

and the Cox is noisy - so I will be changing to a (dyed) 35T Parma Pink  :)

 

Hey Pablo.  Have you ever tried the "putting a flame to the gear while it's turning" thing?  I've never done it, but I saw it posted here some years back and it's supposed to turn noisy gears into unobtanium-silkey-smooth beauties...er something like that.  :pardon:


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:42 AM

Do it all the time, John  :)

See drivetrain test results in my post #31.

 

I heated this Cox but it isn't a gear mesh issue - as I apply power I can see the Cox distort.

A mass produced 50 year old gear designed for a stock 36D simply isn't capable of handling a motor and a car like this.

 

Keep in mind the H 36D is spinning a pretty big, heavy pinion here, also.

The Parma pink will be fine. Only question is, blue or black Rit dye? :dance3:


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#35 havlicek

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:57 PM

 

 

Only question is, blue or black Rit dye :dance3:

 

 

...anything but Pepto-Bismol pink!  :D


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:46 PM

Parma pink 35T dyed really dark blue, and a new thicker Billy Watson body (ready for paint)

 

IMG_7654.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#37 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 06:13 PM

This one is for John H. I took the Cox and secured it to a dummy axle.

Pried it right off the hub with just my strong meaty fingers

 

IMG_7659.JPG

 

Then tried to fold it into a taco shell for fun

 

IMG_7661.JPG

 

Don't try this with a Parma, you'll only hurt yourself :laugh2:

Note to self, do not even attempt to use any of the big vintage crown gears with H Power motors.


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Paul Wolcott

#38 havlicek

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 06:16 AM

Those are some serious gear-pullin' fingers you got there Pablo!  :D

PS:  I AM surprised that the gear is that easy to mangle!


John Havlicek

#39 Pablo

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:06 PM

The bigger they are, the more leverage you have :laugh2:

My friend Bud Greene has been known to fold a complete car into a taco when he's not pleased with it :aggressive: :P


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#40 Pablo

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 06:55 PM

I hated to disassemble the car to make minor improvement modifications to the pin tubes, but it had to be done.

Front tube received a strengthener wire in the middle

 

IMG_7688.JPG

 

Rear tubes are soldered solid now; no more wiggle.

I realize this goes against traditional thinking of more movement rear and less front, but "it is what it is" :search:

 

IMG_7690.JPG


Paul Wolcott

#41 Pablo

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:14 PM

Help! Where can I find "American Mag" style inserts, approx. .568" (14.44 mm) OD?


Paul Wolcott

#42 Horsepower

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 06:33 AM

I have 4 @ around .576.
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Gary Stelter

#43 Pablo

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:18 AM

PM sent, thanks Gary!


Paul Wolcott

#44 Pablo

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 07:54 PM

Re-assembled with the dyed Parma 35T crown.

Drivetrain test #2: much better :dance3:

 

IMG_7702.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#45 Pablo

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:24 PM

What do you think about this Lego warrior as a driver? Bad to the Bone, or, stupid?

When I found him he had a grenade, a pistol, and a flak jacket :)

 

IMG_7712.JPG

 

IMG_7714.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#46 bluecars

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:30 PM

COOL!


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#47 Pablo

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:28 PM

Thanks Red. We both like him, so he stays :)

A piece of tape to secure him atop the motor and a steering wheel is all he needs :ok:


Paul Wolcott

#48 Samiam

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:50 PM

Perfect driver. But give him his gun back. He's got 2nd Amendment rights too.


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#49 olescratch

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:36 PM

Give him all his armament, he may need it soon to deal with the competition.  May even give the build a theme, not that it doesn't have one.


John Stewart

#50 Pablo

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:51 AM

OK how about the MP-5 in one hand and the wheel in the other? :D :aggressive:


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