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Stuff of science fiction that seems about to come true


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#1 Gator Bob

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:47 AM

Who decides?

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#2 jimht

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 02:04 PM

Random number generator in both the vehicle and the target.


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#3 Dave Crevie

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 03:08 PM

Several months ago when we were debating the pros and cons of autonomous vehicles in another thread, I asked a

computer scientist I know about this very subject. I wanted to know who dies in a two car collision in which a fatality

was sure to occur in one of the two cars. His response was that since computers can process so much more

information than the human brain, that the computer would most likely be able to find a solution where no one dies. I

put forth that in this hypothetical event it was certain that someone in one of the vehicles or an innocent bystander

would be killed. How does the computer decide who that will be. He didn't know, but continued saying that the

computer would consider a lot of other variables that we humans wouldn't even think about. Possibly danger to other

bystanders and property damage. I said that no value of property can justify loosing a human life. And I was reminded

that congress does it all the time. They place corporate profits over human life daily.  


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#4 jimht

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 03:18 PM

The consensus is that once the human element is eliminated from the equation the outcome will be less death and destruction.

 

Hopefully the technology to protect us from ourselves will keep pace with our ability to misuse it.

 

There are still people who don't use seat belts...human test dummies.


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Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#5 old & gray

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:43 PM

The moral questions of self driving cars are serious - hit a drunk who steps into traffic or hit a tree? How will property damage be determined? Can the person who wrote the software be sued for there decisions of that software?

 

The three laws of robotics and their perversions come to mind.

 

But worst of all, when a head-on collision between similar vehicles happens the faster vehicle has the higher survival rate. How many people would go for the brake and how many would push the throttle?


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#6 Gator Bob

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:59 PM

What a effing mess ! Computers will decide who lives, who dies. That's just great...don't ya think?

 I find it remarkable that we live to see crazy science fiction come true :dash2:

 

If I see a car on the road with no driver in it ... I'm putting it in the wall. (fence, jersey barrier, tree...etc.)

It will be a test.

 

My I or AI. :crazy:

 

Smart car... we'll see :laugh2:


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#7 Mike Patterson

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:44 PM

I dunno. If I could buy a car that would attack some of my favorite roads with the abilities of an Ayrton Senna or Michael Schumacher, I would be tempted. Mind you, I would still want a car that I could manually drive, so two vehicles would not be a bad solution. BUT, if both preferences could be combined into one car, that would be fun! Unless it costs over $30K.


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#8 Gator Bob

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 11:18 PM

Don't drone me bro.


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#9 Dallas Racer

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:24 AM

Thanks for posting this! This issue had never dawned on me.

 

My opinion is the positives outweigh the negatives. If the article is correct in saying "Self-driving cars could save tens of thousands of lives each year" then it sounds like computers, fallible as they may be, will still be making better decisions than people currently are. Much better.

 

Perfect? No, but still a vast improvement.


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#10 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:33 AM

Most importently, Who gets the ticket and gets sued by the insurance company


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#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:09 AM

Thanks for posting this! This issue had never dawned on me.

 

My opinion is the positives outweigh the negatives. If the article is correct in saying "Self-driving cars could save tens of thousands of lives each year" then it sounds like computers, fallible as they may be, will still be making better decisions than people currently are. Much better.

 

Perfect? No, but still a vast improvement.

 

You're Welcome Phil, 

 

It sure is thought provoking... isn't it.

 

Personally ... I would feel extremely uncomfortable if my car is smarter than the operator, in this case me.

There are many (horrible) drivers out there that would be better off with a self driving car. BTW, 'regular' cars today can get hacked... at anytime.

 

IMO, Bottom line = AI is extremely dangerous, and will get out of hand. I don't need to hear Hawkins, Bezos or Musk to reinforce my concern but I consider them credible on the subject.


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#12 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

Man beats AI in a race.... but not for long.

 

http://spacecoastdai...rs-of-research/


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#13 Dave Crevie

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:18 PM

Are those JPL engineers juniors? Look pretty young. Also, I didn't see any reference as to when that video was made. Drones

were used to find survivors after the hurricane in Texas. I know some people who went down there to help with the rescues

using a pontoon boat. Drone operators located people in need of evacuation, and gave them GPS co-ordinates to guide them

to the location.



#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:08 PM

Drone operators located people in need of execution, and were given GPS co-ordinates to guide them to the location.

 


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#15 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:04 PM

I got my driver's license at 16 - that gives me 65 years on the road.  Competition situations aside,  I have experienced 2 "metal bending" incidents - once when I was stopped at a traffic light and a car turning from the cross street spun and hit me and once when a car in the left lane chose to make an abrupt right turn into a driveway in front of me.

 

I am not likely to yield control of my vehicle to an algorithm that could decide that even though another vehicle is "at fault", the greater good dictates that the occupants of my vehicle must be sacrificed.  Statistics be damned - death is a singular data point.

 

EM


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#16 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:10 PM

Man beats AI in a race.... but not for long.

 

http://spacecoastdai...rs-of-research/

 

There was a short story in Road & Track, perhaps 50+ years ago, on this topic.

 

EM


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#17 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:09 PM

It was the Nixon republicans that eliminated the "Bureau of Technology Assessment" from the US government.  It must have interfered with too many profit mongers from trying to promote these silly schemes.

 

One of my college classes was taught by one of its think tankers.  Try and get THOSE papers under the Freedom of Information Act.


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#18 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:27 PM

It was the Nixon republicans that eliminated the "Bureau of Technology Assessment" from the US government.  It must have interfered with too many profit mongers from trying to promote these silly schemes.

 

One of my college classes was taught by one of its think tankers.  Try and get THOSE papers under the Freedom of Information Act.

 

https://www.princeton.edu/~ota/

 

EM


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#19 Mike Patterson

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:32 AM

Here's another perspective.


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#20 Phil Hackett

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 02:08 PM

As long as the computer in the car in charge of guiding, controlling and protecting the occupant and everyone and everything around the car is its only purpose, the autonomous car will probably be OK. But when "feature creep" starts working its way into the "brain" that's when we need to worry. Look how fast and stable early PCs and smartphones were. Now they have massive operating systems (Windows is rumored to have over 1,000,000 lines of code) that have competing tasks and purposes.

 

Nothing will help you when you're travelling down the road and a "kernal panic" or "blue screen" pops up and tells you it's rebooting (just wait 30 seconds, please)....

 

As to who'd be the blame in an accident? Lawyers and insurance companies are working on that right now.


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#21 Dave Crevie

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 02:21 PM

Well, GM just announced that they will operate their own autonomous taxi system. The projected date I last heard was

mid-2020. But that changed a couple times already. Private-user autonomous vehicles may well be common by then. 







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