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New Mossetti Retro Can-Am kit


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#1 Half Fast

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:48 PM

Here is a photo (via Facebook) of the new Retro kit.
 
Note the spring steel "guide tongue spacer"; a question arises as to its legality under IRRA® Rules.

 

24059128_794916130713364_5102146254041745611_n.jpg


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#2 Bud Greene

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:51 PM

Nice, I want one.



#3 MSwiss

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:35 PM

 

Here is a photo (via FB) of the new Retro kit.
 
Note the spring steel "guide tongue spacer" a question arises as to its legality under IRRA® Rules will be making an official statement

 

It's been brought to our attention and we will be making an official statement.

 

Not legal, if soldered on as shown.

 

Originally the rule stated that the "guide tongue" was only the component that could be sheet steel.

 

In 2016, we made an announcement and added guide brace and doubler in the description of the allowed component, since the multi-level/stepped/coined piece JK, R-Geo and myself sell, is typically referred to as a guide brace.

 

The doubler piece is meant to just be a standoff, and allowed as a coined steel guide tongue is allowed.

 

For the doubler shown in the pic to be considered legal, it can't extend beyond the dimensions of the steel guide tongue; it "doubles."


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:54 PM

For that doubler to be legal, it would need to have the ears trimmed off.

The guide tongue could also be remade to have ears, to match the doubler, but the overall width, for the laminated piece, could not exceed the 1" max width allowed.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#5 Half Fast

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:08 PM

Would it be legal if made of brass instead of steel?

 

Cheers,


Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now.

The most dangerous form of ignorance is not knowing that you don't know anything!

 

 

 
 

#6 Tim Neja

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:14 PM

Yes.


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#7 MSwiss

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:37 PM

Like Tim said, yes, of course, it could be made from brass, as wide as it is, or wider (as long as it didn't bend back and somehow become main rails)


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#8 Racer36

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:58 AM

Rules are rules, but can you explain the rationale behind it, Mike?


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#9 tonyp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:37 AM

We wanted to limit what would be allowed to be made in spring steel to keep guys from having to work with it.
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#10 Racer36

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:20 AM

Thanks, Tony.

 

Makes sense.


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#11 tonyp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:11 AM

Plus we never wanted the class to morph into spring steel chassis.


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#12 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:58 AM

It's like they want to build a kit but don't take time to read the rules first.

 

Nice enough looking kit if you just throw out the guide shim and replace it with a block of brass.


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#13 kvanpelt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:25 AM

I thought that brace was a good idea since a lot of builders solder a piece of piano wire along the front edge of the nose piece anyway for added stiffness.

 

Some of us not so good drivers still manage to hit things and need that added protection.


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#14 MSwiss

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:43 AM

It's like they want to build a kit but don't take time to read the rules first.

 

Nice enough looking kit if you just throw out the guide shim and replace it with a block of brass.

 

We are always available to answer a question on legality.

 

The "amusing" part of this, is that the manufacturer, in the Facebook discussion on this matter, tries to define our descriptions of components and function as if he was the one who has spent countless hours, creating, and refining the rules.

 

I thought that brace was a good idea since a lot of builders solder a piece of piano wire along the front edge of the nose piece anyway for added stiffness.

 

Some of us not so good drivers still manage to hit things and need that added protection.

 

Yes, and racers can still solder that piano wire across, like they have, the last 10+ years.

 

The fact that no one had done anything like that, before, with sheet steel, should have been a good indicator that it was not legal to do.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

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#15 Milkman

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:39 PM

I agree with you, Mike. There's always someone who "pushes" the rules, but a manufacturer should confirm the legality of their new products to avoid controversy/issues.


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#16 Cheater

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:55 PM

The initial concept for IRRA® chassis rules, at least from my perspective, was to define an 'envelope' within which builders and designers could innovate. Yes, there's always someone who either ignores the carefully-crafted rules or who wants to operate outside of the envelope.

 

I wish racers could know the number of hours the people who created IRRA® expended on crafting the rules.

 

I've been claiming that the IRRA® chassis rules are the first time in the history of model car racing a non-spec scratchbuilt chassis class has been defined. If I am wrong, point me to where it has occurred before. Sure, there were no chassis rules in the beginning but I can't think of another slot car rules set that defines a limited form of scratchbuilt chassis.


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#17 Samiam

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:38 PM

I've been claiming that the IRRA® chassis rules are the first time in the history of model car racing a non-spec scratchbuilt chassis class has been defined. If I am wrong, point me to where it has occurred before.

Early Int-15 Wing car chassis were scratchbuilt from wire,brass and steel. Only the nose could be steel and it's dimensions were limited like the current IRRA rules. 


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#18 MSwiss

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:43 PM

The limiting dimension on the steel nose on an I15 chassis was how far it could go back.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#19 mrslotcar.ca

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:36 PM

Hi All

 

Can I get some of your thoughts on this revised Guide Plate Doubler. Thank you

Attached Images

  • mossetti racing 1 inch guide doubler.jpg

Ernie Mossetti


#20 MSwiss

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:45 PM

From my post #4;

 

"The guide tongue could also be remade to have ears, to match the doubler, but the overall width, for the laminated piece, could not exceed the 1" max width allowed."

 

So the guide tongue would have to be recut to match that piece(with, of course the part in front of it, to hold the guide shoe, added)


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#21 tonyp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:45 PM

The rules specify a steel tongue dimensions. That is not a steel tongue but a spacer. If brass it would be legal but as a steel spacer it is not. To use a steel spacer under guide tongue it would have to be no bigger than the tongue itself.


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
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American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
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#22 tonyp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:47 PM

Or done as suggested by Mike Swiss.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#23 mrslotcar.ca

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:30 PM

Can this be ok then ?

Attached Images

  • mossetti racing retro guideholder and doubler.jpg

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Ernie Mossetti


#24 MSwiss

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:40 PM

Yes, terrific.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#25 mrslotcar.ca

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:44 PM

Thank you


Ernie Mossetti






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