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#1 MSwiss

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:45 PM

Congrats to Jason Dennis on winning Can-Am, at ORS-KOR Race #4 at MMW, using a leftover bulk 7R motor I had from this year's Sano.
 
I did not charge Jason over retail, as another raceway currently is doing, for motors that the raceway claims are from a superior batch.
 
Chicagoland Raceway will never charge over retail price for an item they perceive to be from a better batch or in short supply.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.





#2 JerseyJohn

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:09 PM


That is pure greedy bullshirt. What an anal orifice!!!
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#3 Pat Skeggs

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:32 PM

Mike, if you have any more leftover motors, I'll take two. You can put them on my order.

#4 Rob Voska

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:49 PM

As stated in other threads that batch to batch motors are not the same. The manufacturer nor the importer has any control over manufacturing so problem can't be corrected. 

 

Maybe start etching them with batch numbers 7R 1.0, 7R 1.1, 7R 1.2 or whatever so at least people are running the same batch of motors.

 

Would not cost any more as cans are already etched. Once batch 1.0 is used up you have X amount of time to use them then only batch 1.1 allowed. Seems the only fair way to do it.


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#5 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:22 PM

Great idea Rob. The problem here is that the same batch I used at the R4 is the only batch there is of the 7Rs. So the Sano motors, the R4 motors, as well as the packaged motors are a single batch. Tim buys in, IIRC, 10K plus batches.
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#6 Jason Holmes

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:13 PM

According to Tim at JK the batch of 7Rs we are running now he received in Feb. 

 

jason



#7 Tim Neja

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:35 PM

That is pure greedy bullshirt. What an anal orifice!!!

 

I'll never buy another product from that other shop! They're done!


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#8 Cheater

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:53 PM

As stated in other threads that batch to batch motors are not the same. The manufacturer nor the importer has any control over manufacturing so problem can't be corrected. 
 
Maybe start etching them with batch numbers 7R 1.0, 7R 1.1, 7R 1.2 or whatever so at least people are running the same batch of motors.
 
Would not cost any more as cans are already etched. Once batch 1.0 is used up you have X amount of time to use them then only batch 1.1 allowed. Seems the only fair way to do it.


Are you aware that since the improved balancing was implemented, only two production orders of JK Retro Hawks have been received?

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#9 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:10 AM

No wonder Jerry retired.


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#10 MSwiss

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:21 AM

I'll never buy another product from that other shop! They're done!

 

I got peppered with PMs last night, and this morning, referencing price gouging on older Retro Hawks.

I finally got to see what all the hub-bub was about, late this afternoon, when one of my customers came in, who belongs to FB Slot Car Race Talk.

Breezing through that crazy thread, as far as I can tell, someone decided to trade his reputation for $147 extra profit.


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#11 havlicek

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:39 AM

Congrats to Jason Dennis on winning Can-Am, at ORS-KOR Race #4 at MMW, using a leftover bulk 7R motor I had from this year's Sano.
 
I did not charge Jason over retail, as another raceway currently is, for motors that raceway claims are from a superior batch.
 
Chicagoland Raceway will never charge over retail price for an item they perceive to be from a better batch or in short supply.

 

... as it should be, and apparently isn't always. Good on you, Mike!


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#12 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 08:13 AM

Sounds like a business transaction between two people with terms they agreed to, nothing more, nothing less. What transpired is none of your business.

 

Do all raceways sell every item for the same price?

 

In karting its not uncommon for Chinese motors to be sold for more then their intended retail price because they are perceived to be from a better batch.

 

When you deal with Chinese junk this is a inherent problem and its painfully obvious to some.

 

Bob K.


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#13 MSwiss

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:09 AM

What transpired is none of your business.

 

That vendor needed you in his corner in that Facebook thread. LOL.


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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#14 Cap Henry

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:14 AM

Sadly, not the first time it's happened in racing, and won't be the last. Racers will pay for an advantage, real or not.


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#15 MSwiss

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:24 AM

Of course, true, Cap.

 

The point of my post was threefold;

 

1) That Jason Dennis won a 7R race with a motor that was recently purchased by the raceway from JK.

Not last year's model.

 

2) To make it clear to those who already didn't know it, I won't take advantage of short supply, old version, etc., to raise the price over retail.

 

3) To bring light to Jason Dennis's meteoric (re)rise in Ohio slot racing. I guess he was a top finger in the mid-'90s.


Mike Swiss
 
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#16 B.C.

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:10 PM

The vendor in question might have purchased that magical machine from one of the coasts that triple zapped motors and charged more, or maybe it was the business card that made them cost more.


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#17 Samiam

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:52 PM

... or maybe it was the business card that made them cost more.

 

You mean the ones with the hand-written notes? :laugh2: That must have been the "Perfected Packaging."

 

"Dirty Bird Turbo-Blasted Triple Zapped Stress Relieved Super Duper Racing Hawk." :sarcastic_hand:


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#18 jimht

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:56 PM

Disregarding the fact that someone offered to sell what they owned at higher or lower or regular MSuggestedRP in a free market (and disregarding the hypocrisy of declaring oneself as righteous in such a non-issue :laugh2: ) most of that Facebook garble was just a few people repeating themselves over and over without resolution about how flawed the FK motors are (no matter how many dropped in momentarily to disagree).


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#19 Brinkley47

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 02:02 PM

If those would have been R motors, they would all be sold by now. (I would have personally tried to buy them.)

A product is worth what someone is willing to pay. I don't see the need to criticize the man selling it.


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#20 Danny Zona

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 02:29 PM

If those would have been R motors, they would all be sold by now. (I would have personally tried to buy them.)


It would have been a bidding war. 😉
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#21 Mark Wampler

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 03:29 PM

I look at this as no different than sports fans being compelled to approach scalpers for good seats to watch their favorite teams. It's legal and its business. The vendor in question is entitled to sell them for $100 if he chooses to.

 

For me, I'm not losing any sleep. It's America  and free enterprise rocks.


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#22 MSwiss

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:27 PM

A product is worth what someone is willing to pay. I don't see the need to criticize the man selling it.

 

To be clear, I never criticized the seller.

 

While the people who informed me by P, were criticizing him, and a few of the posters here certainly did, I'm just promoting my business by pointing out I would not do the same.

 

No different then when a raceway who doesn't sell pinned guides, posts a picture of a broken, pinned guide, (pinned by a racer) and declares "pinned guides don't work," to make his unpinned guides look more attractive to buy.

 

I look at this as no different than sports fans being compelled to approach scalpers for good seats to watch their favorite teams. It's legal and its business. The vendor in question is entitled to sell them for $100 if he chooses to.

 

For me, I'm not losing any sleep. It's America  and free enterprise rocks.

 

Mark,

 

Speaking of $100, wasn't that the figure some stores were selling cases of bottled water for this year, post-hurricane?

 

I guess by your "free enterprise rocks" comment, you are endorsing that fine moment in America's history.


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Mike Swiss
 
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#23 Tim Neja

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:34 PM

There's "legal" and there's "ethical"! I don't care to buy from anyone that tries to take advantage of people. Just like the ones' selling water at $100/case. They have their right to do so – I have mine not to do business with them any more. Sounds a little like the NFL, right?? 


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#24 jimht

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:39 PM

You get what you pay for.  :laugh2: 


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#25 tonyp

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:45 PM

Sometimes.


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#26 Phil Hackett

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:57 PM

Scarce and desirable objects always are sold to highest bidders even if the desirablity is hyped without fact (luxury cars for instance). For whatever reason the high-price dealer was able to convey scarcity and desirablity to his customers. They bought it. No different from what Tiffany & Co. does with jewelery.

 

Slot car parts are not water or food or shelter. You can certainly survive without any slot car parts. Those that choose to not be prepared for brief interuptions in critical goods will pay the price, not that price-gouging for water is/was morally correct. Supply and demand is the rule of the (human) jungle even though several economic/political systems have tried to ignore or irradicate it.

 

From a bumper sticker: Stupid should hurt.


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#27 Brinkley47

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 07:02 PM

This guys raffles off Hawks for 40 a piece almost daily.

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#28 MSwiss

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 07:53 PM

I won't be doing whatever exactly that is, either. LOL
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#29 Mark Wampler

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 07:54 PM

I guess by your "free enterprise rocks" comment, you are endorsing that fine moment in America's history.

 
Mike, I'm not endorsing anyone, you're changing my narrative. I endorse free enterprise. Free enterprise includes everyone who uses it legally. You may not like how people use free enterprise. So... buyer beware...
You can quote me.

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#30 Mike Patterson

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 09:51 PM

Can someone explain to me what this thread is supposed to be about? I've figured out that somebody paid stupid money for an FK motor, but I'm clueless as to why that matters in the overall scheme of things.


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#31 Samiam

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:11 PM

I think it's a warning to stay off of Facebook.


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#32 Dallas Racer

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:16 PM

Well, it has to be important, Mike P. It inspired not one but two threads. ;)

 

I'm in the "so what" camp. It's not a necessity like water or food is in a natural disaster. Its a frickin' slot car motor. 
It couldn't be any less important. A retailer can put whatever price they want on an item. If you don't like the price just don't buy it.


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#33 Shooter7mustang

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:25 AM

It blows my mind that people complain about prices of anything! The reason they charge that is because people pay it! Don't buy it and they will quit overcharging.

 

I personally will not buy from ***-wipes that price-gouge. And I find it amusing that people pay $1.99 for an item and 3.99 for the shipping. I have been guilty of that in the past but not for awhile.

 

Tired of the greed. Sometimes "Capitalism is it's own worst enemy." eBay is getting far too greedy as are some of its sellers. Unfortunately, some people have more money than sense or they just do not care about anyone but themselves. Collectively, we sheep have all the power but refuse to wield it.

 

I prefer to do business with people I consider to be honest; Tom Thumb and Chicagoland are two that come to mind. I do not mind paying a little extra to my local track either, to keep the doors open.

 

Anyway just my opinion.


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#34 Shooter7mustang

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:28 AM

You get what you pay for.  :laugh2: 

 

You do not always get what you pay for.   :sarcastic_hand: 


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#35 Samiam

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:30 AM

Two words...

 

Kelly Retros

 

And a few more...

 

"No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime... you find
You get what you need"

 

- Rolling Stones


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#36 gc4895

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:40 AM

I think this thread has established that there exists a market for toy car motors. Seems motors of a certain vintage have been deemed of higher value than others by some users. Sellers and buyers meet in the marketplace and trades that each side view as desirable occur. This allows for an efficient allocation of resources. If a competitor wants a motor of a certain vintage, they may participate in this market. Econ 101.
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#37 MSwiss

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 10:18 AM

Two words...
 
Kelly Retros

 

On Kelly Retros, I never sold them for $19.99, or whatever the retail was suppose to be.
 
I was happy to make the same profit I would on a $12 or $13 pair of tires.
 
And of course, when I went from 150-200 pair, to 5 or 10 pair left, and there wasn't any hope of more coming down the pike, I didn't raise the price.
 

I think this thread has established that there exists a market for toy car motors. Seems motors of a certain vintage have been deemed of higher value than others by some users. Sellers and buyers meet in the marketplace and trades that each side view as desirable occur. This allows for an efficient allocation of resources. If a competitor wants a motor of a certain vintage, they may participate in this market. Econ 101.

 

already explained it in post #15 and #22 but I'll add...

 
People can sell at whatever price they want, and the consumer can certainly pay whatever that price is.
 
This post started in The Parts Counter (Greg moved it, rightfully), and the purpose was myself touting I wouldn't participate in the same practice.
 
I appreciate everyone's business. I plan to run a raceway as long as I'm healthy enough to do so. I believe that taking advantage of a supply situation, is just that, taking advantage, and making a "quick" $147, would hurt me in the long run.
 
For that $147, I can let kids scream for two hours, like I did three times this past weekend, and instead of negative stuff on Facebok SCRT, I can read stuff like the below, on FB Chicagoland Raceway;
 
"We held our son’s sixth birthday party at CR and it was amazing! All the kids hard such an awesome time racing and Mike and Jim were fantastic! Thank you!"


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#38 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 10:47 AM

SpeedZone has hundreds of Kelly Retro tires if you guys are looking for them.


Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta


#39 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 12:30 PM

I have some $100 Retro Hawk motors that are not for sale!

 

I do sometimes 'sponsor' them to special folks - only a few I think rode the short bus like Red or Ralph.   :crazy:


Charlie McCullough

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Bartos Chassis  CHR Cars

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Mossetti Racing

 


#40 havlicek

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 03:43 PM

I had to go back and read Mike's original post again to be sure because some/a lot of what's being said here in response is way OT. He didn't cast aspersions on anyone else's business or business model. What he did do was make a clear/unambiguous statement about his own business practices and contrast that with some other's. By doing so, he accomplished two things:

1) Some self-promotion. Anyone who's in business and is too shy about promoting their business won't be in business long.
2) Assured people that his margin will remain low (*as if the profit margin for slot car parts isn't already so low that a world-class limbo dancer couldn't get under there).


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John Havlicek

#41 Shooter7mustang

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:24 AM

So, if you become sick and require medications

that cost $2 to manufacture and you have to pay $2000 per dose out of pocket because

your insurance doesn't cover compound

meds then you wont mind being "gouged". There is nothing wrong with a fair profit margin but

price gouging is not good business practice and as far as I am concerned speaks to a persons character and not

favorably.


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Bad Dog Racing

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"Till the wheels fall off"

 

Romans 1:16 "... for I am not ashamed of the Gospel"


#42 team burrito

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 02:52 AM

gee, i'm so glad i quit retro racing when I did.


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Russ Toy (not Troy)
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#43 DE38

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 03:39 AM

I normally stay out of these threads but I see some people getting out of Retro because o f the motor problems, let me tell  ya I race against Jimmy Williams at HVR and if ya want to get disappointed, when you think you have a fast bullet, race this kid with your best motor on HVRs King which is a drivers track. Ive had my share of 2 step motors so has Katz and a number of other people I race with, but you know what its the nature of the beast. If the motor problems are enough to run you out of racing so be it , but I'm not gonna let this situation stop me from racing with my buds in Retro East. Tim is doing an outstanding job trying to come to a conclusion to this , but as far as I'm concerned I will deal with situation and I will KEEP RACING no matter what. 

My last race at Port Jeff in stockcar , scratchbuilt by me using HVR parts with a suspect motor qualified in the d or e main because of a gear issue and ended up 11th overall , the motor 2 stepped me, lost brakes , got brakes so you know what? I dealt with it and adapted to what the motor was doing and RACED the car . So you know what? If the problems with this motor is enough to sell your Retro program and stop racing with your buds, I don't think I would want to hang with ya.

 

My 2cents.


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Charlie Shmerler


#44 slotcarone

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:21 AM

Very well put Charlie and I agree 100%!! Race on!! :)


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Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#45 tonyp

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:32 AM

One of the issues is the haves and the have nots. A few people have the older motors and we know for the most part they on many tracks are faster than the 7 r.

In the GRRR 2018 season we are probably going to 7r as the jk motor of choice. We will allow the use of the older motors in nascar f1 gtc.

I believe on the tracks we run on this will even up the field.


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
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#46 Danny Zona

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 10:57 AM

Interesting ☝️🤔
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#47 Samiam

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 11:07 AM

Charlie just dropped the mic on this one. :victory: 


Sam Levitch
 
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#48 Brinkley47

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 11:34 AM

I normally stay out of these threads but I see some people getting out of Retro because o f the motor problems, let me tell  ya I race against Jimmy Williams at HVR and if ya want to get disappointed, when you think you have a fast bullet, race this kid with your best motor on HVRs King which is a drivers track. Ive had my share of 2 step motors so has Katz and a number of other people I race with, but you know what its the nature of the beast. If the motor problems are enough to run you out of racing so be it , but I'm not gonna let this situation stop me from racing with my buds in Retro East. Tim is doing an outstanding job trying to come to a conclusion to this , but as far as I'm concerned I will deal with situation and I will KEEP RACING no matter what. 
My last race at Port Jeff in stockcar , scratchbuilt by me using HVR parts with a suspect motor qualified in the d or e main because of a gear issue and ended up 11th overall , the motor 2 stepped me, lost brakes , got brakes so you know what? I dealt with it and adapted to what the motor was doing and RACED the car . So you know what? If the problems with this motor is enough to sell your Retro program and stop racing with your buds, I don't think I would want to hang with ya.
 
My 2cents.

the difference between you and I is travel. I traveled 16 hours to run port Jeffs retropalooza. Would you want to travel 16 hours to run a motor you dont trust? If I had a local retro program, I may be more likely to keep at the retro thing. I have to drive 6 hours for my Closest retro race. I have no intentions to continue that process with the current state of affairs.

I believe a 7r only rule will be the end of retro. Look at the ORS numbers for this year(7r only) vs. 2016 with any hawk motor. The 7r is the problem. Making that the only motor multiplies the problem.

I am planning on selling my retro stuff soon. Too bad for you, we cant hang :)
Will Brinkley
willbrinkley@gmail.com

#49 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 11:44 AM

Well, to the guys dropping out of racing, hope you find a hobby that doesn't cost too much and can still enjoy most of the people you will be hanging with. So, with that, I wish everyone a Happy New Year! Good luck to you all.


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Tom Eatherly

#50 Samiam

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 11:50 AM

I'm going to post this again. Pretty much disproves a lot of what has been claimed as absolute fact in hundreds of posts here and on Fakebook.

 

Results from last Retro East race at Port Jeff Raceway

 

Stock Car     fast lap   total      motor

1st      Dom    4.501  310.01    R

2nd  X-Pro     4.546   309.13    7R

3rd  Chubby   4,526   305.16    7R

 

Can-Am

1st  Chubby  3.863     360.02   7R

2nd  X-Pro    3.862     359.07   7R

3rd  Edsel     3.915     358         R 

 

Apples to apples.

No bananas.


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Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
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