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Vintage Russkit drag car


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#1 Dallas Racer

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:23 PM

I was going to bid on this car but it got too rich for my blood. I am curious as to what motor it has. The laminates and end caps are different than I've seen.

 

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#2 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 12:19 AM

Hard to judge it from one photo, but:

 

1) only thin lamination magnet setup is the Ram 857.  Thicker ones would be more distinct to me.

2) modified endplates for sure. everyone tried something different.

3) Armature/commutator image could shed more proof of the origin.  Ram has 7 poles and welded comm, others only 5 and soldered.

 

I have a friend restoring one of these that needs a droparm. Any extras out there?

My R-GEO clone is about ready to test run.


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#3 hiline2

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:04 AM

Do you guys know we've been running these style cars in  a Proxy race?
We just had the fourth annual in Florida!
 
Dallas Racer, it would be great if the big track over in DFW area would do some Vintage padlock type drag racing 
 
Rods 'n Rails


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#4 Dave Crevie

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 03:34 PM

It does appear to be a Ram 857, at least the lams and endplates. I still have the one I bought new when they

came out. But no matter how you modified the motor, they just were not competitive against a magwinder. So

the local track where I raced came up with a class they called alcohol dragster. It was for these cars, and no

changes were allowed other than gearing and rear tires. It became the most contested class with entries two

or more times that in the top fuel and unlimited classes. 


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#5 airhead

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:49 PM

I have a similar car with a pittman DC 65 motor, When ever I go to a raceway with a drag strip I take the ole dragster, The fast guys don't like me to enter the bracket races, because the old Pittman runes around 2 seconds and I am almost to the finish before they leave the start.

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#6 Dallas Racer

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 11:05 PM

Larry, I Googled on and off at work today for info on Ram 857 motors. There's not much. And then this evening I found a post by you, Paul. You have  a couple of almost identical motors to the one I posted. You and Larry exchanged posts about it: http://slotblog.net/...e-2#entry583579

 

You have quite a collection, Paul! :good:

 

I've never actually drag raced. I've always been a road course guy. But Philippe's thread about Gene Husting's car really got me interested in vintage padlock rails. Now I have to have one. I might even go race it.

 

Nice Russkit, Paul. If the one eBay was that clean I would have bid higher on it.

 

Is that a DC65? I thought they were smaller: http://slotblog.net/...pittman-motors/

 

 


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#7 don.siegel

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 07:42 AM

Yep, that looks like the DC85 - the DC65 would be small in that frame... 

 

Don 


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#8 hiline2

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:08 AM

to fit in the Blue Russkit chassis it is a 85 or 850 size motor , DC 65s be about half that size. 

 

Phil , get into the game !  rejuvenating (or building repops) is fun and running !  They just finished the 2017 race and there are photos and all on here,

also on FB under "Rods N Rails" check it out and jump in !

 

Id really like to see the Dallas track join in having these races!

 

The 2 modified padlocks havent made it into cars "yet"  restoring others to run 1st but soon !

 

Billy jump into the proxy racing with us !!!


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#9 don.siegel

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:09 AM

If I remember right, the Russkit instructions (or an ad...) actually do say it fits both the DC85 and the DC65... and I've found a chassis or two already fitted with the smaller motor... don't remember offhand if the builder had to make extra holes. 

 

Don 



#10 Dave Crevie

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 02:48 PM

The Russkit chassis had oblong holes to mount the motor, and a DC65 will fit. But why would anyone want to do that?



#11 don.siegel

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 02:50 PM

To not pay $6.95 for a DC85? 

 

One of the ones I have is for a 1/32 car, with the front end replaced by something shorter... 

 

Don 


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#12 Dallas Racer

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:18 PM


 

Nice Russkit, Paul. If the one eBay was that clean I would have bid higher on it.

 

Is that a DC65? I thought they were smaller: http://slotblog.net/...pittman-motors/

 

 

 

I meant Billy, not Paul.

 

Paul, I think I will give drag racing a try when I get a car. Hopefully my car won't be so slow that it pisses everyone off.

 

I would think it would be hard to get a vintage padlock rail class going. Chassis seem few and far between.


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#13 hiline2

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:45 PM

 

I meant Billy, not Paul.

 

Paul, I think I will give drag racing a try when I get a car. Hopefully my car won't be so slow that it pisses everyone off.

 

I would think! it would be hard to get a vintage padlock rail class going. Chassis seem few and far between.

well not true ! we have run the 4th annual proxy on vintage rails and rods . Ive posted links to where you can watch the video on this year run, also do a search for "Rods N Rails" to see other posts and videos


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#14 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:14 AM

R-GEO products in Pennsylvania has made a similar EDM kit.  Not all of his product line is on his facebook page, so send him a note.  His primary list is brass retro car kits and accessories.


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#15 Dallas Racer

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:01 PM

Paul, wow, there's some good looking rails in this Rods N Rails thread: http://slotblog.net/...hl= rods rails Some/all of those chassis look to be new. Bill Bilanco's cars have cool chassis. Does he make them for sale? Also Dave Cummerow list his chassis as made by Mark Adams. Does he sell chassis?

 

Larry, I saw R-Geo rails in another thread. Some of the vintage chassis are long and some are a little shorter. R-Geo look to be the shorter variety. His cahssis look nice, but I really prefer the longer ones.

 

I really prefer a vintage one. But if I can't find one, new would be alright.

 


 


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#16 Dallas Racer

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:40 PM

I just found this pic of Rick's chassis assembled. I was wrong. It is the long version. I just emailed Rick. :)

 

http://slotblog.net/...l-kit/?p=670101


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#17 Dave Crevie

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:52 PM

Phil, Mike Swiss ran an all Manta Ray class when he was in La Grange. We had a ball with this. There were a lot of

the Russkit dragsters built. Most everyone at the track I raced at back then had one. And if exact copies are allowed,

you could get a pretty good turnout. The hard item to get will probably be the DC-85. But If you go to a model railroad

swap meet, there are lots of them around. Modelers replace them with modern precision can motors.



#18 Tom Katsanis

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 06:10 PM

Hi Phil no one was upset about my cars being slow so you should be right there another option for a chassis is to get some magnesium or aluminum sheet & make your own rails like a magwinder if you have a drill press & a dremel & can use them you will be fine.
Here is a couple of pics of an aluminum one I'm having a go at building now.
Tom

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#19 hiline2

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:27 PM

 

you could get a pretty good turnout. The hard item to get will probably be the DC-85. But If you go to a model railroad

swap meet, there are lots of them around. Modelers replace them with modern precision can motors.

the Pittmans and even rams come up fairly regular on Ebay


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#20 Dallas Racer

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:17 PM

That's a nice looking chassis, Tom! :good:

 

I can handle the Dremel part, but I don't have a drill press, and I can't hand drill worth a crap. I can't seem to hold the drill perfectly perpendicular and the bit always drifts.


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#21 MSwiss

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:24 PM

Get a Dremel drill press stand, and not just for drilling.

 

With a 402 mandrel and 409 disc, you can also use it to cut identical height strips


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#22 Dallas Racer

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:31 PM

Phil, Mike Swiss ran an all Manta Ray class when he was in La Grange. We had a ball with this. There were a lot of

the Russkit dragsters built. Most everyone at the track I raced at back then had one. And if exact copies are allowed,

you could get a pretty good turnout. The hard item to get will probably be the DC-85. But If you go to a model railroad

swap meet, there are lots of them around. Modelers replace them with modern precision can motors.

 

Dave, I don't even know any of the local drag guys, so I don't know if any of them would be interested.

 

I've watching ebay and they do turn up from time to time like Paul said.

 

Philippe has DC85's for sale, brand new in the box for $25. But from what I've read on slotblog, you want a 6 volt DC85, as they're suppose to be faster. DC85 and DC85A are 12 volt, DC85A-6, DC84-6 and DC85X are 6 volts. That could be wrong. Correct me if I am.

 

Search the forum for Pittman. There's a lot of good info.

 

I bought a DC84-6 off ebay. There's not much info on them. I hope it will be a good one. If not, that's OK. I didn't pay much for it

 

The brush arm insulators are missing on the DC84. Any chance of buying them? If not, I was thinking about using RC gas line or something like it.


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#23 Dallas Racer

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:36 PM

Get a Dremel drill press stand, and not just for drilling.

 

With a 402 mandrel and 409 disc, you can also use it to cut identical height strips

 

You know 4 or 5 years ago I had one in the pawnshop. I sold it to a local racer I've known for 30 years.  At the time I had a nice floor drill press and didn't need it.

 

I may just get a small bench top drill press. What's a good one?


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#24 MSwiss

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:53 PM

Along with my Jet floor model, I have a 2/3 HP Sears bench model.

 

It's fine, but it's not like I'm always trying others.

 

I would just Google it.


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#25 Tom Katsanis

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:08 AM

Thanks Phil,
The next best option is just an Rgeo K&B dragmaster replica chassis it is the same as what Boxerdogs rail is & a few of the chassiss TSRF has in that display pic in The Husting drag car post.
The dc84-6 is a fine motor a little smaller yhan the 85 in width with more revs but less torque.
The Ram 850 & 857 are good motors to look out for but they are priced more towards 40 to 50 dollars one of the proxy guys scored one for a good price just last week on ebay.
There was also a strombecker padlock too that is what Boxerdog has in his rail but with a rewound arm but the stock arm is a 6v anyway.
Tom

#26 hiline2

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

Plus there are RAM replacement arms popping up on ebay  for either Ram or Pittmans. just scored one !


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#27 Dave Crevie

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:57 PM

Well, the only way to find out if there is any interest in a retro drag racing group is to do something. Build a car, buy one

off the internet, push the local track owner to stock some parts. But if everyone stands around twiddling their thumbs, it

will not happen. The Manta Ray class got started because a few old timers brought cars to the track. Even retro racing

got it's start because a few people built cars.



#28 hiline2

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:38 PM

Well, the only way to find out if there is any interest in a retro drag racing group is to do something. Build a car, buy one

off the internet, push the local track owner to stock some parts. But if everyone stands around twiddling their thumbs, it

will not happen. The Manta Ray class got started because a few old timers brought cars to the track. Even retro racing

got it's start because a few people built cars.

 

We are already doing that 


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#29 Dallas Racer

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:28 PM

Plus there are RAM replacement arms popping up on ebay  for either Ram or Pittmans. just scored one !

 

I've been doing a lot of research on these vintage rails. I read in a slotblog thread about that arm. That they're supposed to be fast. So I had my proxy bidder set to bid on that auction, but it didn't work!  :dash2:  But hey, at least you got it! :good:


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#30 SlotStox#53

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:30 PM

 
We are already doing that 


We certainly are! 4 years strong and heaps of fun messing with these cool padlock motors :D

If our group of mad Proxy peeps were all in the same area and had a raceway with a strip I know we'd be having a vintage dragster race series without question.

Would totally be up for tearing up the strip with these padlock warriors every week :heart:
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#31 Dallas Racer

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:37 PM

Well, the only way to find out if there is any interest in a retro drag racing group is to do something. Build a car, buy one

off the internet, push the local track owner to stock some parts. But if everyone stands around twiddling their thumbs, it

will not happen. The Manta Ray class got started because a few old timers brought cars to the track. Even retro racing

got it's start because a few people built cars.

 

I haven't been to a slot car track in at least 10 years. One after another life event has kept me from getting back into it. That hasn't stopped me from periodically going on an eBay slot car buying spree though. And from having several eBay slot car searches set up.

 

Anyway, I'm not really in a position to get anything going at the local track. The only people I know there are a few of the road course guys.

 

PS: Where do you race, Paul B?


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#32 hiline2

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:52 PM

If you know Chris Tanner , Ive spent time in his garage on the track there. did visit the track over in Dallas area a while back but when it comes to Drag racing all I have is track to lay down for testing


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#33 Dallas Racer

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:42 PM

I recognize Chris' name from the old Texas forum, but I don't know him.

 

Like I said, the vintage padlock rails are what's really appealing to me. And I could enjoy just building one or more. Once I have one I might just ship it out to one of the proxy races and not even bother racing it myself.


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#34 SlotStox#53

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:49 AM

I recognize Chris' name from the old Texas forum, but I don't know him.
 
Like I said, the vintage padlock rails are what's really appealing to me. And I could enjoy just building one or more. Once I have one I might just ship it out to one of the proxy races and not even bother racing it myself.


Build one or build many just please enter our vintage drag proxy next year. The more the merrier :D

Parts are available on evilpay quite often and others are easily found with some searching. Motors are easy enough to work on and it's amazing how much FUN Proxy racing can be!

The team has entered 3 Annual races out of the 4 held and as yet I haven't raced any of my cars myself.

Any questions please ask!
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#35 Dallas Racer

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:21 AM

Paul, I do have a question. Are the proxy rules posted somewhere? I've never built a drag car and have no idea what's required.


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#36 hiline2

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:54 AM

Yes, they were posted here I think (ill look and make a link) but also over on the DC Punk Forum too

 

here is link to the 2017 rules

 

http://dc-punk.freef...017-rules-final

 

found them here too

 

http://slotblog.net/...nd-rails-proxy/


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#37 Dallas Racer

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 02:45 PM

Thanks. I've been perusing DC Punk the last couple of days. Lots of good info!

 

So far I have the DC-84-6 in hand and 2 R-Geo repop rail chassis' on order. What wheels/tires, axles and gears do I need to get? What's the max width? Do I need narrower than normal length axles? 


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#38 Tom Katsanis

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 05:39 PM

Hey Phil how are you some of the guys are just running modern rear tires thats what I'm putting on my car I'm currently building with 3/32 rear axle & modern O ring fronts if you get stuck for original style fronts pm me I know where some are for reasonable money but a wanted ad on Dc-punk will probably get you a lot of what your after.
With the rears if you want somthing that works & is traditional take a look at Bills Cub Tire post over on Dc punk it's what I'm going to look at doing on some of my cars.
As for gears the weldun 64p are probably the best you want maybe between a 2.5 to 1 to a 3 to 1 ratio you will need a large spur gear in the 60 to 70 tooth count & a pinion in the 20 tooth range Professer Motor has some spurs available or there are some on ebay if you have trouble finding a pinion you can use an r/c one for a 1/8 shaft.
Most of these gears & tires are to suit a 1/8 axle I hope I have been some help.
Tom.
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#39 hiline2

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 09:05 PM

Check this link out, it shows lots of the cars in last races.

 

http://slotblog.net/...nspection-line/

 

Tires, some are using new stuff , either 1/8th  or 3/32 axles. just depends on what you want and have in your box

some of us using vintage foams re ground and shaped

 

gears: can be welduns 64p or anything you got in 48p like trhe old cox spurs etc and matching pinions.

 

In the old vintage motors dont be afriad to ask , you see we got some of the GREAT vintage and padlock experts to help

 

probably the only hard rule is guide flag, its gotta be black or grey to trip sensors.

 

the repop rail frames are great and surprisingly lots of vintage stuff does appear too , just depends what you wanna spend there

 

BEST over all we just having fun !


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Paul Bass

#40 Dallas Racer

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 10:59 PM

I think I need to take it one step at a time, because my head is about to explode. ;)

 

Let's start with axles. I was thinking I needed to get threaded vintage axles. But from what everyone has told me, I guess it would make more sense to go with 3/32" axles, to make it easier to get spur gears and tires? 


Phil Smith ® ™


#41 Tom Katsanis

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 12:34 AM

Hey Phil yeah sorry for the influx of advice If you want to keep it traditional go with 1/8 axles all the old gears available are 1/8 we just use the parma sleeve for 3/32 & I'm using 3/32 because thats what my modern wheels use (ProTrack wheels are in 1/8 I just used jds because I like the cragar 5spokes).
You can use just some 1/8 set screw hubs on the back & fit them with some german rubber off an r/c aeroplane like the cub tires Bill is using for some of his cars & get them trued to size.
Most all the vintage frnts are 1/8 the k&b chassis is setup for 1/8 with a 1/4 inch hole for the rear bearings & a 1/8 hole for the fronts.
Tom

#42 hiline2

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 11:05 AM

you can do either, there are 1/8th axle (non treaded) all over ebay and other sources or go 3/32 similarly.

There are small 3/32 to 1/8th converter brass pieces that let you use 1/8th weldun gears or grub wheels on 3/32 axle

 

spur gears are in both sizes. Weldun are 1/8 but the little brass fitting lets you use them on 3/32 axles

 

you can go threaded or grub wheel axles in 1/8th. the are modern protrack and parma tire/wheel combos in both , th 1/8th are just limited more but again all can be found on ebay easily.

 

If your into real scratch building on tires the post on cub tires and all is great but for a start there is enuff choice in new tire/wheel rubber, or if you want we can discuss some vintage rubber tires/wheels I have that can be easily made ready for racing.


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Paul Bass





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