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Pro Slot PS4002 and PS4002FK - which is better?


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#1 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:37 AM

Can anyone tell me which is the better of these two motors?

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002FK
Trevor Neilson




#2 John Streisguth

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:20 AM

Probably the magnets are the biggest difference. The 4002 should have ceramic, the FK has poly-neos. 

 

They publish the wind spec for the FK but not the 4002, so someone with more intimate knowledge would have to chime in on that.


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#3 Tim Wood

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:57 AM

Ask Pro Slot technical support.



#4 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:07 PM

I think post #2 is correct. PS 4000 and 4001 also use the same ceramic setup with different armatures and lighter springs for lower RPM classes.

 

John Miller, please confirm.


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:13 PM

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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#6 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 02:32 PM

Mike,

Have you metered both arms?

Dave


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#7 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:38 PM

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

 

Ummm, that doesn't mean anything to me. Which one would be the better motor?


Trevor Neilson

#8 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:02 PM

Stack length the same?
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Regan #40 (1911 - 2004)

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#9 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:26 PM

Ask Pro Slot technical support.

    •  

       


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#10 MSwiss

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:33 PM

Have you metered both arms?


No.
 

Stack length the same?


I don't know.
 

Ummm, that doesn't mean anything to me. Which one would be the better motor?


Ummm, you didn't ask that in your post.
 
Ummmm, you didn't say what kind of cars you race.
 
Ummmmm, you didn't say what kind of track you race on.
 
Ummmmmm, if acceleration and brakes are important to your type of racing, probably the 4002FK.

Mike Swiss
 
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#11 Pablo

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:21 PM

PM Zippity or swodem, both know the answers to your questions.

This is a problem experienced only in NZ, maybe a bad batch or a case of mis-labeled packaging.


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#12 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:39 PM

No.
 
I don't know.
 
Ummm, you didn't ask that in your post.
 
Ummmm, you didn't say what kind of cars you race.
 
Ummmmm, you didn't say what kind of track you race on.
 
Ummmmmm, if acceleration and brakes are important to your type of racing, probably the 4002FK.


Ummm, I really just need to know what the difference is so I can make up my own mind.
Trevor Neilson

#13 MSwiss

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:51 PM

They are from basically two different eras, so I've never had both in stock, at the same time, to compare them directly on the track.
 
I edited your title, and the text of your first post, to help you get the answer you really wanted.

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
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#14 Pablo

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:11 AM

Can anyone tell me the speed difference between these two motors?

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002FK


You'd probably need to define "speed" to get the answer you are looking for.

But you've been given specific and correct answers to the question and it appears to me you are simply an antagonistic poster.
 
Did you PM Zippity as I suggested?
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#15 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:41 AM

^^^^

I didn't put the world speed in it someone else did. zip and orange  use the FK motor. Apart from different magnets (which no one has told me what difference they make), I've had no answers on the difference between the 2 motors. Pro Slot don't seem to be answering emails or their FB. have they closed down for Christmas?. 


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#16 MSwiss

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:52 AM

Are you for real?

I answered your original question, (what is the difference?) in post #5.

You rudely asked, what you really meant is which is better.

I take that as better lap times.

Since you won't tell us what kind of car you are running, what kind of track you are racing on, what power,etc., I simply used the word "speed".

I'll edit it again to say "better", and let the other Slotbloggers guess what you want.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#17 Half Fast

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:10 AM

Pro tip to the original poster-
 
Don't get snippy with the people who are trying to help you in answering a question that was unclear to begin with.
 
Cheers

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#18 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:52 AM

I said difference. not speed . Someone told me they use different magnets, but made no mention on what difference they made to the motors.or if one is better than the other.  So I will ask the question again. What is the difference between these two motors. Is it just the magnets or are there other differences. If it is just the magnets what difference do the two different types of magnets have on these motors.  


Trevor Neilson

#19 MSwiss

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:10 AM

Read #5. Read #5. Read #5.

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

Translated;top motor has 60 turns of 31 AWG wire.

Bottom has 65 turns of 30 AWG wire.

60 is less than 65, 30 AWG is bigger than 31 AWG.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#20 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:47 AM

Read #5. Read #5. Read #5.

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

Translated;top motor has 60 turns of 31 AWG wire.

Bottom has 65 turns of 30 AWG wire.

60 is less than 65, 30 AWG is bigger than 31 AWG.

ok. so now I know what 60T31 and 65T30 mean. but I still don't know what 65 turns has what type of effect on a motor v's 60 turns and the same goes 31 awg v's 30 awg. Can you explain what effect  having more or less turns on a amature has on a motor and what different gauge wire does as well. 


Trevor Neilson

#21 John Streisguth

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:58 AM

Less turns= faster. Bigger wire= faster. But each will have a different effect, it's not as simple as that. The NEO magnets are stronger, so probably more torque and brakes. But it may draw more amps.

 

The bottom line is..."it depends".  Depends on the car it's in, depends on the track, depends on the power supply.  The only way to tell which is a "better" motor is to buy one of each and try them out. On paper, it sounds like they may be pretty close. But it's on the track that counts.


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"Whatever..."

#22 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:59 AM

Here is an idea. Don't be a key board racer. Buy one of each and test each one. your answer will come from track testing.
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#23 Samiam

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

:shok: :dash2: :crazy:

 

:hi:


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#24 old & gray

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:18 AM

Because it’s a snowy day and I’m shut in, I’ll put my finger in this fan.

 

When we come on this forum we appear as our avatar and our tag line. Some people give a bit more information than others, and some people are so well known they only have one name (Cheater vs Greg Wells). Recognizing the experience level of someone asking questions can be very difficult, and the technical issues being discussed can make it difficult to even frame a question. Giving someone the technical theory of wire size, turns, stack length, and magnet strength assume a knowledge base on the part of the original poster which may not exist. Telling him to go out and try each motor is good advice IF he knows how to get a baseline for each motor. If you review the previous few years of discussions on these motors you can see comments about them which would suggest the aligning of brush hoods and reconfiguring of brushes just to get reasonable performance to start a comparison. It took me a bloody long time to understand the way the torque curve and power curve on an electric motor interacted and I got a lot of helpful but bad advice along the way. Not because people were trying to mislead me but because neither of us knew the limitation of the other’s knowledge.

 

My advice (free and worth every penny), is to buy and try. Power supplies and wiring have turned rockets to slugs for years. Be advised my experience (inline cars with 48 pitch gears) is the ceramic magnet motor will need a pinion two teeth less than the NEO magnet motor (7 teeth vs 9 teeth) but track configuration, “power”, and car will also influence this requirement.


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#25 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:40 PM

Less turns= faster. Bigger wire= faster. But each will have a different effect, it's not as simple as that. The NEO magnets are stronger, so probably more torque and brakes. But it may draw more amps.

 

The bottom line is..."it depends".  Depends on the car it's in, depends on the track, depends on the power supply.  The only way to tell which is a "better" motor is to buy one of each and try them out. On paper, it sounds like they may be pretty close. But it's on the track that counts.

thank you. we got there in the end lol. 


Trevor Neilson





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