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Pro Slot PS4002 and PS4002FK - which is better?


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#1 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:37 AM

Can anyone tell me which is the better of these two motors?

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002FK
Trevor Neilson




#2 John Streisguth

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:20 AM

Probably the magnets are the biggest difference. The 4002 should have ceramic, the FK has poly-neos. 

 

They publish the wind spec for the FK but not the 4002, so someone with more intimate knowledge would have to chime in on that.


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#3 Tim Wood

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:57 AM

Ask Pro Slot technical support.



#4 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:07 PM

I think post #2 is correct. PS 4000 and 4001 also use the same ceramic setup with different armatures and lighter springs for lower RPM classes.

 

John Miller, please confirm.


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:13 PM

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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#6 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 02:32 PM

Mike,

Have you metered both arms?

Dave


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#7 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:38 PM

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

 

Ummm, that doesn't mean anything to me. Which one would be the better motor?


Trevor Neilson

#8 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:02 PM

Stack length the same?

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#9 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:26 PM

Ask Pro Slot technical support.

    •  

       


Trevor Neilson

#10 MSwiss

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:33 PM

Have you metered both arms?


No.
 

Stack length the same?


I don't know.
 

Ummm, that doesn't mean anything to me. Which one would be the better motor?


Ummm, you didn't ask that in your post.
 
Ummmm, you didn't say what kind of cars you race.
 
Ummmmm, you didn't say what kind of track you race on.
 
Ummmmmm, if acceleration and brakes are important to your type of racing, probably the 4002FK.

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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#11 Pablo

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:21 PM

PM Zippity or swodem, both know the answers to your questions.

This is a problem experienced only in NZ, maybe a bad batch or a case of mis-labeled packaging.


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#12 anarot

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:39 PM

No.
 
I don't know.
 
Ummm, you didn't ask that in your post.
 
Ummmm, you didn't say what kind of cars you race.
 
Ummmmm, you didn't say what kind of track you race on.
 
Ummmmmm, if acceleration and brakes are important to your type of racing, probably the 4002FK.


Ummm, I really just need to know what the difference is so I can make up my own mind.
Trevor Neilson

#13 MSwiss

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:51 PM

They are from basically two different eras, so I've never had both in stock, at the same time, to compare them directly on the track.
 
I edited your title, and the text of your first post, to help you get the answer you really wanted.

Mike Swiss
 
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#14 Pablo

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:11 AM

Can anyone tell me the speed difference between these two motors?

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002

Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002FK


You'd probably need to define "speed" to get the answer you are looking for.

But you've been given specific and correct answers to the question and it appears to me you are simply an antagonistic poster.
 
Did you PM Zippity as I suggested?
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#15 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:41 AM

^^^^

I didn't put the world speed in it someone else did. zip and orange  use the FK motor. Apart from different magnets (which no one has told me what difference they make), I've had no answers on the difference between the 2 motors. Pro Slot don't seem to be answering emails or their FB. have they closed down for Christmas?. 


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#16 MSwiss

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:52 AM

Are you for real?

I answered your original question, (what is the difference?) in post #5.

You rudely asked, what you really meant is which is better.

I take that as better lap times.

Since you won't tell us what kind of car you are running, what kind of track you are racing on, what power,etc., I simply used the word "speed".

I'll edit it again to say "better", and let the other Slotbloggers guess what you want.
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Mike Swiss
 
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#17 Half Fast

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:10 AM

Pro tip to the original poster-
 
Don't get snippy with the people who are trying to help you in answering a question that was unclear to begin with.
 
Cheers

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#18 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:52 AM

I said difference. not speed . Someone told me they use different magnets, but made no mention on what difference they made to the motors.or if one is better than the other.  So I will ask the question again. What is the difference between these two motors. Is it just the magnets or are there other differences. If it is just the magnets what difference do the two different types of magnets have on these motors.  


Trevor Neilson

#19 MSwiss

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:10 AM

Read #5. Read #5. Read #5.

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

Translated;top motor has 60 turns of 31 AWG wire.

Bottom has 65 turns of 30 AWG wire.

60 is less than 65, 30 AWG is bigger than 31 AWG.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#20 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:47 AM

Read #5. Read #5. Read #5.

Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30

Translated;top motor has 60 turns of 31 AWG wire.

Bottom has 65 turns of 30 AWG wire.

60 is less than 65, 30 AWG is bigger than 31 AWG.

ok. so now I know what 60T31 and 65T30 mean. but I still don't know what 65 turns has what type of effect on a motor v's 60 turns and the same goes 31 awg v's 30 awg. Can you explain what effect  having more or less turns on a amature has on a motor and what different gauge wire does as well. 


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#21 John Streisguth

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:58 AM

Less turns= faster. Bigger wire= faster. But each will have a different effect, it's not as simple as that. The NEO magnets are stronger, so probably more torque and brakes. But it may draw more amps.

 

The bottom line is..."it depends".  Depends on the car it's in, depends on the track, depends on the power supply.  The only way to tell which is a "better" motor is to buy one of each and try them out. On paper, it sounds like they may be pretty close. But it's on the track that counts.


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"Whatever..."

#22 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:59 AM

Here is an idea. Don't be a key board racer. Buy one of each and test each one. your answer will come from track testing.
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#23 Samiam

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

:shok: :dash2: :crazy:

 

:hi:


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#24 old & gray

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:18 AM

Because it’s a snowy day and I’m shut in, I’ll put my finger in this fan.

 

When we come on this forum we appear as our avatar and our tag line. Some people give a bit more information than others, and some people are so well known they only have one name (Cheater vs Greg Wells). Recognizing the experience level of someone asking questions can be very difficult, and the technical issues being discussed can make it difficult to even frame a question. Giving someone the technical theory of wire size, turns, stack length, and magnet strength assume a knowledge base on the part of the original poster which may not exist. Telling him to go out and try each motor is good advice IF he knows how to get a baseline for each motor. If you review the previous few years of discussions on these motors you can see comments about them which would suggest the aligning of brush hoods and reconfiguring of brushes just to get reasonable performance to start a comparison. It took me a bloody long time to understand the way the torque curve and power curve on an electric motor interacted and I got a lot of helpful but bad advice along the way. Not because people were trying to mislead me but because neither of us knew the limitation of the other’s knowledge.

 

My advice (free and worth every penny), is to buy and try. Power supplies and wiring have turned rockets to slugs for years. Be advised my experience (inline cars with 48 pitch gears) is the ceramic magnet motor will need a pinion two teeth less than the NEO magnet motor (7 teeth vs 9 teeth) but track configuration, “power”, and car will also influence this requirement.


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#25 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:40 PM

Less turns= faster. Bigger wire= faster. But each will have a different effect, it's not as simple as that. The NEO magnets are stronger, so probably more torque and brakes. But it may draw more amps.

 

The bottom line is..."it depends".  Depends on the car it's in, depends on the track, depends on the power supply.  The only way to tell which is a "better" motor is to buy one of each and try them out. On paper, it sounds like they may be pretty close. But it's on the track that counts.

thank you. we got there in the end lol. 


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#26 anarot

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:41 PM

Because it’s a snowy day and I’m shut in, I’ll put my finger in this fan.

 

When we come on this forum we appear as our avatar and our tag line. Some people give a bit more information than others, and some people are so well known they only have one name (Cheater vs Greg Wells). Recognizing the experience level of someone asking questions can be very difficult, and the technical issues being discussed can make it difficult to even frame a question. Giving someone the technical theory of wire size, turns, stack length, and magnet strength assume a knowledge base on the part of the original poster which may not exist. Telling him to go out and try each motor is good advice IF he knows how to get a baseline for each motor. If you review the previous few years of discussions on these motors you can see comments about them which would suggest the aligning of brush hoods and reconfiguring of brushes just to get reasonable performance to start a comparison. It took me a bloody long time to understand the way the torque curve and power curve on an electric motor interacted and I got a lot of helpful but bad advice along the way. Not because people were trying to mislead me but because neither of us knew the limitation of the other’s knowledge.

 

My advice (free and worth every penny), is to buy and try. Power supplies and wiring have turned rockets to slugs for years. Be advised my experience (inline cars with 48 pitch gears) is the ceramic magnet motor will need a pinion two teeth less than the NEO magnet motor (7 teeth vs 9 teeth) but track configuration, “power”, and car will also influence this requirement.

thanks for that as well. 


Trevor Neilson

#27 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:56 PM

Most places race with a set of rules for the cars. ONE of the rules is motor choice. The racer has NO option to select the motor for THAT race car.

 

Many entry level classes ONLY use ceramic magnets as part of their rules.

 

Since I race with several different groups,  I have to change the motor in my cars for each event - or have extra cars all set-up.  Many races use the same motor/chassis combo and just change body styles.


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#28 swodem

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:39 AM

Anarot

On our Flat tracks with LMP Flexi's (mostly C43 now) the PS4002FK is faster, but more aggressive in power.

It suits LMP body.

I would use the other motor (if it was legal, but its not) for Saloon and F1GP classes, as while its a little slower its much smoother = better handling in the lower downforce classes for maybe same lap times but better overall race car - they  have similar feel to the Falcon 7 motor.

 

But not legal so can't...PS4002FK it is!



#29 SlowBeas

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:07 AM

Trevor, I'd be very interested in knowing what kind of conditions you race under. Are you racing on a commercial raceway? A home track? Length and type of track can certainly influence motor choice as well as what makes one motor "better" than another. Track voltage? Body type?

 

All these things (and many others that I'm too stupid to recognize) can have a great effect on motor choice. But as you've probably noticed, we've all found that, sometimes, the best thing to do is buy one and try it with different pinion/spur combinations. And if you're racing at a commercial raceway, don't be afraid to ask some of the other guys. Most slot racers are more than willing to help and, possibly, let you try driving one of their cars with a motor they've found to be "better."

 

Good racing to you.

jb


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#30 anarot

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:53 AM

Anarot

On our Flat tracks with LMP Flexi's (mostly C43 now) the PS4002FK is faster, but more aggressive in power.

It suits LMP body.

I would use the other motor (if it was legal, but its not) for Saloon and F1GP classes, as while its a little slower its much smoother = better handling in the lower downforce classes for maybe same lap times but better overall race car - they  have similar feel to the Falcon 7 motor.

 

But not legal so can't...PS4002FK it is!

Yea thanks Steve.The original title was "what is the difference between these 2 motors"   All I wanted to know what the difference was and it got all blown up and the titled changed a few times. On clubs nights we pretty much run what we like. I'm thinking of going back to the Hawk motor and just putting in the 4002 for competitions 


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#31 anarot

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:58 AM

Trevor, I'd be very interested in knowing what kind of conditions you race under. Are you racing on a commercial raceway? A home track? Length and type of track can certainly influence motor choice as well as what makes one motor "better" than another. Track voltage? Body type?

 

All these things (and many others that I'm too stupid to recognize) can have a great effect on motor choice. But as you've probably noticed, we've all found that, sometimes, the best thing to do is buy one and try it with different pinion/spur combinations. And if you're racing at a commercial raceway, don't be afraid to ask some of the other guys. Most slot racers are more than willing to help and, possibly, let you try driving one of their cars with a motor they've found to be "better."

 

Good racing to you.

jb

Pretty much home tracks (flat) about 25 metres long but as long as about 35 metres depending on the track.  and the body can be anything from F1/saloon to lmp.Voltage from 12.5 to maybe 14? volts All I really wanted to know what the difference was. Could of been answered in 1 post instead of 30, but we got there in the end lol. 


Trevor Neilson

#32 Samiam

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:03 AM

It took 30 posts to figure out what you were asking.


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#33 swodem

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:19 AM

I’m sure it won’t happen again...
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#34 anarot

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:35 AM

It took 30 posts to figure out what you were asking.

I thought it was quite simple. All I wanted to know what was the difference between the 2 motors. On post 19 someone told me the answer I was looking for which was

PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31 
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30 

Translated;top motor has 60 turns of 31 AWG wire.

Bottom has 65 turns of 30 AWG wire.

and now it's up to post 34


Trevor Neilson

#35 swodem

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:42 AM

Actually it's a bit like watching a homeless guy crumple up and throw back the $20 a Good Samaritan handed him, yelling "I just wanted your loose change!!" 

 

You might want to re-read your own initial post, and post 7, you asked which one was better, not what the differences were.

 

Better is subjective.

 

Differences are factual.


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#36 Cheater

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 10:28 AM

Trevor,

When you ask "which is better," my question is better for what? Better for a home track or a commercial-quality track?

Without relating more info or defining your standards of comparison, your question is along the lines of which is better, a blonde or brunette?

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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#37 Dennis David

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:01 AM

Brunette
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Dennis David
    
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#38 anarot

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:31 AM

Actually it's a bit like watching a homeless guy crumple up and throw back the $20 a Good Samaritan handed him, yelling "I just wanted your loose change!!" 

 

You might want to re-read your own initial post, and post 7, you asked which one was better, not what the differences were.

 

Better is subjective.

 

Differences are factual.

As I have said a number of times. someone changed my wording. first to speed then to better. My original post was "what is the difference between these two motors". Then someone else gave me a answer that I didn't understand as they did not say what 60T31 , 65T30 meant. 

Now it's up to post #38

Mike Swiss


Trevor Neilson

#39 anarot

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:38 AM

Trevor,

When you ask "which is better," my question is better for what? Better for a home track or a commercial-quality track?

Without relating more info or defining your standards of comparison, your question is along the lines of which is better, a blonde or brunette?

And Steve and post #21 gave a good reply 

the PS4002FK is faster, but more aggressive in power.

It suits LMP body.

 the other motor  while its a little slower its much smoother 

post #39 now


Trevor Neilson

#40 MSwiss

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:51 AM

As I have said a number of times. someone changed my wording. first to speed then to better. My original post was "what is the difference between these two motors". Then someone else gave me a answer that I didn't understand as they did not say what 60T31 , 65T30 meant. 
Now it's up to post #38
 

Mike Swiss

Your reply to that post was not "I don't understand what 65T30 means".

Your rude reply was;

Ummm, that doesn't mean anything to me. Which one would be the better motor?

I made the mistake of assuming you would of read the Proslot description of both motors and would be able to translate my common shortened reference.

 

Anyway, you were the one who didn't state you didn't understand my answer and asked "Which one would be the better motor?"

 

So I changed the title.

PS-4002FK
We are excited and pleased to release our PS-4002FK motor.
Everyone has been waiting for an FK motor for sealed motor racing and Retro racing with a combination of tamper proof endbell can and replaceable brushes with the same specs that everyone is using now.
This motor is based on our FK-MK1 series of motors and features poly/neo magnets, 65 turns of 30 gauge wire, 15 deg timing, with clockwise rotation from the can side. The shafts are long enough for Comm Coolers and endbell drive if desired.


Bottom line, the blame for this thread, dragging on, is 100% on you.


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Mike Swiss
 
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#41 Racer36

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:05 PM

This thread is a great illustration of why racers are hesitant to help others. What seemed like a question asked by someone new to the hobby and possessing little knowledge has turned into the OP presenting himself here as a complete imbecile. We have no way of knowing what he is like in real life, but his online persona is quite clear.

 I like to help new racers out when I can, but who wants to step into a hornets nest like this?


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Dennis Dominey

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#42 Half Fast

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:09 PM

Don't hold back Dennis, tell us what you really think! :)

 

Cheers


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Bill Botjer

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#43 Cheater

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:38 PM

Time for the door to shut on this thread.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap






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