Pro Slot PS4002 and PS4002FK - which is better?
#1
Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:37 AM
Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002
Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002FK
#2
Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:20 AM
Probably the magnets are the biggest difference. The 4002 should have ceramic, the FK has poly-neos.
They publish the wind spec for the FK but not the 4002, so someone with more intimate knowledge would have to chime in on that.
#3
Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:57 AM
Ask Pro Slot technical support.
#4
Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:07 PM
I think post #2 is correct. PS 4000 and 4001 also use the same ceramic setup with different armatures and lighter springs for lower RPM classes.
John Miller, please confirm.
Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... Raceworld/Ramcat Raceways
racing around Chicago-land
Diode/Omni repair specialist
USRA 2023 member # 2322
IRRA,/Sano/R4 veteran, Flat track racer/MFTS
Host 2006 Formula 2000 & ISRA/USA Nats
Great Lakes Slot Car Club (1/32) member
65+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America
#5
Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:13 PM
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#6
Posted 13 December 2017 - 02:32 PM
Mike,
Have you metered both arms?
Dave
#7
Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:38 PM
Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30
Ummm, that doesn't mean anything to me. Which one would be the better motor?
#8
Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:02 PM
#9
Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:26 PM
Ask Pro Slot technical support.
#10
Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:33 PM
Have you metered both arms?
No.
Stack length the same?
I don't know.
Ummm, that doesn't mean anything to me. Which one would be the better motor?
Ummm, you didn't ask that in your post.
Ummmm, you didn't say what kind of cars you race.
Ummmmm, you didn't say what kind of track you race on.
Ummmmmm, if acceleration and brakes are important to your type of racing, probably the 4002FK.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#11
Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:21 PM
PM Zippity or swodem, both know the answers to your questions.
This is a problem experienced only in NZ, maybe a bad batch or a case of mis-labeled packaging.
Paul Wolcott
#12
Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:39 PM
No.
I don't know.
Ummm, you didn't ask that in your post.
Ummmm, you didn't say what kind of cars you race.
Ummmmm, you didn't say what kind of track you race on.
Ummmmmm, if acceleration and brakes are important to your type of racing, probably the 4002FK.
Ummm, I really just need to know what the difference is so I can make up my own mind.
#13
Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:51 PM
I edited your title, and the text of your first post, to help you get the answer you really wanted.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#14
Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:11 AM
Can anyone tell me the speed difference between these two motors?
Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002
Pro Slot Euro MK-1 Motor - Sealed - PS-4002FK
You'd probably need to define "speed" to get the answer you are looking for.
But you've been given specific and correct answers to the question and it appears to me you are simply an antagonistic poster.
Did you PM Zippity as I suggested?
Paul Wolcott
#15
Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:41 AM
^^^^
I didn't put the world speed in it someone else did. zip and orange use the FK motor. Apart from different magnets (which no one has told me what difference they make), I've had no answers on the difference between the 2 motors. Pro Slot don't seem to be answering emails or their FB. have they closed down for Christmas?.
#16
Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:52 AM
I answered your original question, (what is the difference?) in post #5.
You rudely asked, what you really meant is which is better.
I take that as better lap times.
Since you won't tell us what kind of car you are running, what kind of track you are racing on, what power,etc., I simply used the word "speed".
I'll edit it again to say "better", and let the other Slotbloggers guess what you want.
- Half Fast likes this
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#17
Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:10 AM
- MSwiss and Samiam like this
Bill Botjer
Faster then, wiser now.
The most dangerous form of ignorance is not knowing that you don't know anything!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
#18
Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:52 AM
I said difference. not speed . Someone told me they use different magnets, but made no mention on what difference they made to the motors.or if one is better than the other. So I will ask the question again. What is the difference between these two motors. Is it just the magnets or are there other differences. If it is just the magnets what difference do the two different types of magnets have on these motors.
#19
Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:10 AM
Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30
Translated;top motor has 60 turns of 31 AWG wire.
Bottom has 65 turns of 30 AWG wire.
60 is less than 65, 30 AWG is bigger than 31 AWG.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#20
Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:47 AM
Read #5. Read #5. Read #5.
Differences;
PS-4002 ceramic mags, 60T31
PS-4002FK poly-neo mags, 65T30
Translated;top motor has 60 turns of 31 AWG wire.
Bottom has 65 turns of 30 AWG wire.
60 is less than 65, 30 AWG is bigger than 31 AWG.
ok. so now I know what 60T31 and 65T30 mean. but I still don't know what 65 turns has what type of effect on a motor v's 60 turns and the same goes 31 awg v's 30 awg. Can you explain what effect having more or less turns on a amature has on a motor and what different gauge wire does as well.
#21
Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:58 AM
Less turns= faster. Bigger wire= faster. But each will have a different effect, it's not as simple as that. The NEO magnets are stronger, so probably more torque and brakes. But it may draw more amps.
The bottom line is..."it depends". Depends on the car it's in, depends on the track, depends on the power supply. The only way to tell which is a "better" motor is to buy one of each and try them out. On paper, it sounds like they may be pretty close. But it's on the track that counts.
- MSwiss, old & gray, Samiam and 1 other like this
#23
Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:24 AM
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#24
Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:18 AM
Because it’s a snowy day and I’m shut in, I’ll put my finger in this fan.
When we come on this forum we appear as our avatar and our tag line. Some people give a bit more information than others, and some people are so well known they only have one name (Cheater vs Greg Wells). Recognizing the experience level of someone asking questions can be very difficult, and the technical issues being discussed can make it difficult to even frame a question. Giving someone the technical theory of wire size, turns, stack length, and magnet strength assume a knowledge base on the part of the original poster which may not exist. Telling him to go out and try each motor is good advice IF he knows how to get a baseline for each motor. If you review the previous few years of discussions on these motors you can see comments about them which would suggest the aligning of brush hoods and reconfiguring of brushes just to get reasonable performance to start a comparison. It took me a bloody long time to understand the way the torque curve and power curve on an electric motor interacted and I got a lot of helpful but bad advice along the way. Not because people were trying to mislead me but because neither of us knew the limitation of the other’s knowledge.
My advice (free and worth every penny), is to buy and try. Power supplies and wiring have turned rockets to slugs for years. Be advised my experience (inline cars with 48 pitch gears) is the ceramic magnet motor will need a pinion two teeth less than the NEO magnet motor (7 teeth vs 9 teeth) but track configuration, “power”, and car will also influence this requirement.
- Uncle Fred, Rob Voska and swodem like this
#25
Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:40 PM
Less turns= faster. Bigger wire= faster. But each will have a different effect, it's not as simple as that. The NEO magnets are stronger, so probably more torque and brakes. But it may draw more amps.
The bottom line is..."it depends". Depends on the car it's in, depends on the track, depends on the power supply. The only way to tell which is a "better" motor is to buy one of each and try them out. On paper, it sounds like they may be pretty close. But it's on the track that counts.
thank you. we got there in the end lol.