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PSFK doing work at Mark's Model World


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#1 Brinkley47

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 03:19 PM

New total lap record and new lane record for all eight lanes today at MMW in OH. The new batch of PSFKs work amazing. This is what happens when a company improves their product.

23 entries today for BRS (PSFK) - new records across the board.
23 entries last week for ORS (retro hawk) - half a second slower than the record.

I am usually not the smartest guy in the room. However, I feel like this should be a sign for all Retro racers.


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#2 Tim Neja

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:58 PM

Well a $45 motor should be more consistent than a $13 motor.  But that's not the whole story--I'm sure there will be plenty of discussion.  But I still prefer the sealed "no touch" motors to race Retro with.  When I want a "build em" class--I race Retro Pro!  :)


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She's real fine, my 409!!!

#3 Samiam

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:13 PM

Tim,

 

The PSFK is $14. The 4002B or Puppy Dog was $45. 

 

It is a completely different motor than the JKHR so direct comparisons are sketchy to say the least. Track records are broken due to many variables and to say it was all the motor is being generous. IRRA® track records fall all the time with the same JKHR motor and even with the so called inferior 7R7R7R. 

 

Will,

 

What are the improvements that were made to the PSFK?


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#4 Gary Adams

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:50 PM

Let's not forget that the PSFK motor is as easily modified for additional speed as the Puppy Dog motor.
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#5 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:16 PM

Gary: what mods to get additional speed?


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#6 Alan Dodson

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:27 PM

Brushes and springs and hood alignment are all you can change on the PSFK motor. They are sealed so you can't remove the endbell! I do like the fact that they use regular 36D size brushes and you can replace them. You don't have to chuck your best motor because a tiny nub of a brush has gone away!


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#7 Samiam

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:31 PM

I would like to know how and if this so called greatly improved PSFK 'new batch' is distinguished from the previous batch.

 

Doc,

 

Just go look at any one of the dozens of motor discussions about the PSPD (4002B/BB). Or about any of the traditional motors with seals. Any or all of the shenanigans,real and perceived, that went on with those motors are possible with the PSFK. Especially the one about the well-known motor builder who supplied cheater motors for a sealed Parma 502 class. Just sayin'.  :whistle3:    


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Sam Levitch
 
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#8 Jason Holmes

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:42 PM

The only thing new on the PSFK is the tied comm. I would still run my older PSFK against them. For $13.95 a much better chance at a good motor right now.

 

Sam, do you own a fertilizer company? Because you sure like to spread it by bringing up the bad in the old instead of looking for the good in the new. 

 

As you said, Just sayin'.

 

Jason

 

PS: These are great little motors by the way.


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#9 Richard G With

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:44 PM

I don't see anything on the Pro Slot site about an "improved" PSFK. But I'll take a few if someone cares to explain the differences.


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#10 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:52 PM

They tied the comm and glued the fabric in place.
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#11 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:02 PM

Will,

Are you guys trimming the brush faces for reduced overlap?

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#12 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:06 PM

Here we go again. 


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#13 Samiam

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:14 PM

Sam ,do you own a Fertilizer Company? Because you sure like to spread it by bringing up the bad in the  old instead of looking for the Good in the new

 

By fertilizer I assume you mean BS. None of what I said is BS. I was just answering a question by pointing in the direction of hundreds of posts about all these types of sealed motors.
 
BTW, I like conventional motors, too. Even sealed ones. I just don't think disparaging another manufacturer was necessary. Saying that PSFKs were now being produced with tied comms. and set new records would have been sufficient. But we all know what (and who) this is really about.


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#14 Tim Neja

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:19 PM

Thanks, Sam. When I looked on the website, it said "new" FK and it had the $45 dollar version. I did not see one at $13.  

 

But if they have one that is sealed up with no access to the brush's and springs, I'd be interested!   :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#15 MSwiss

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:43 PM

23 entries last week for ORS (retro hawk) - half a second slower than the record.

 

Half a second slower than the record?

 

From Bill Fulmer's race report, last week:

 

Can-Am TQ went to Will Custer at 4.172.

F1 TQ Will Custer again 4.326.

 

Please point to the MMW race, with a Retro Hawk, where TQ in Can-Am was 3.672 or faster.

And 3.826, or faster, with an F1.

 

Has a Retro Hawk ever gone  3.672, on any Gerding King, let alone Mark's somewhat flat one?


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#16 Cap Henry

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:43 PM

Hey, Greg, are the MMW race results hidden in the ORS forum? I don't see them.


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#17 MSwiss

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:45 PM

I had a hard time finding them also.

They are in race announcements.


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#18 Cap Henry

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:46 PM

Thanks, Mike!


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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 12:02 AM

No problem, Cap.

Do you ever remember a 3.6 at MMW with a Retro Hawk?

Any idea how fast they went today with the new Pro Slot?


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#20 Cheater

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 12:12 AM

Hey, Greg, are the MMW race results hidden in the ORS forum? I don't see them.


Cap, I can't control who posts race results here or elsewhere, as much as I would like to do so.

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#21 Cheater

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 12:43 AM

New total lap record and new lane record for all eight lanes today at MMW in OH. The new batch of PSFKs work amazing. This is what happens when a company improves their product.


Will,

The central issue is what do you wish to see accomplished.

Is faster always better?

Do you have any concerns about whether or not the the 1/24 commercial racing hobby survives, achieves some sort of stabilty, and perhaps even finds a modicum of growth?

That's the difference between my viewpoint and the viewpoint of so many people who participate in this niche leisure-time activity: whether it's just about them and their personal sucesses/failures or if it about the condition and future of the overall hobby.

Looking at other hobbies, I find 1/24 slot racing is incredibly devoid of any altruistic feelings regarding the activity itself and I wonder why that is the case. Perhaps you can relate your feelings about this.
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#22 Cap Henry

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 04:10 AM

According to a FB post the F1 Retro hawk record was 4.162, Can Am wasnt mentioned.

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#23 Samiam

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:14 AM

I checked the Pro-Slot web site ( https://proslot.com/ ) but couldn't find anything about these new improved PS4002FKs. Is the only improvement a tied comm.? Why would this increase speed? Reliability, Yes. Speed?

 

Correction...It is $14.95 retail, not $14. A lot of motor for the money.   


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#24 glueside

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:26 AM

Especially the one about the well-known motor builder who supplied cheater motors for a sealed Parma 502 class. Just sayin'.  :whistle3:    

 

This is a major issue that no one even thinks about or talks about.


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#25 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:29 AM

According to a FB post the F1 Retro hawk record was 4.162, Can Am wasnt mentioned.

 

The Retro F1 record is 4.03 for a PSFK.
Hawk F1 is 4.16.
All the records at Mark's were run with a older Hawk. The 7R qualified okay. I TQ'd both last weekend 4.17 with Can-Am, 4.3 with F1.
This week Greg Fox TQ'd both classes at BRS and Can-Am was 3.95, F1 was 4.07.

The 7R isn't in the same ballpark.


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#26 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:56 AM

We all know the Pro Slot is faster. That has been proven before. If that is the point then this conversation is over. We can all agree The Pro Slot is faster.

 

But no we will do this again in order to beat down the JK Retro Hawk.


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#27 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:01 AM

My point was the claim of the 7R being a half second off of some record, seemed like an exaggeration.

I would have questioned it earlier, but I had 3 parties and non-stop rentals until closing.

The old batches of Retro Hawks weren't as fast as 4002FK's.

Why would anyone think the 7Rs should be? LOL.

Any dopes that say they are the same spec, always conveniently skip that the brush size and spring configuration is totally different.

PS: I hadn't seen Eddie's post when I had made mine.


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#28 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:08 AM

The 7R is a bit off even the old Hawks at Mark's. At tracks where speed is all you need the 7R will be mincemeat.

 

Screenshot_20171217-074031.png


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#29 Samiam

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:08 AM

Sealed motor racing is all about trust in the integrity of the so called seal.

 

Read my tag line in my signature.


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#30 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:08 AM

How's 3 tenths of a second, Swiss?

Is that more accurate?


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#31 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:39 AM

Is the 4.10 on orange a Retro Hawk time or a 4002FK time?


Mike Swiss
 
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#32 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:11 AM

A RH.


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#33 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:32 AM

So your best Can-Am race lap, last week, was 4.42?


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Mike Swiss
 
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#34 Alan Dodson

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 02:30 PM

I don't care about which motor is faster, what I do care about is how many I have to buy to get a raceable motor! I have been racing PSFK's in Dallas and I have 2 outstanding motors out of 15. I have 8 that are ok for monthly races, but I won't be in contention for a win. I have 5 that are jig motors. I only have 2 RH's, one is very good and one is not. I know that's not enough to make a comparison, but so far my percentages are better with the RH.

Just sayin'


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#35 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 03:13 PM

So your best CanAm race lap, last week, was 4.42?


That was f1 and yes my best time in Orange in f1 with a 7r is a 4.4 and record with a hawk is a 4.1 on Orange
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#36 Brinkley47

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:10 PM

My point is the hawk has slowed down (with the new batch) and the psfk has not. I know the psfk has more speed overall. That was never a debate.

Since Swiss likes math
Here are the 7r results compared to the R (or older) hawks:
Red lane = 4.693 - 4.264 = 0.429 seconds slower
White lane = 4.624 - 4.177 = 0.477 seconds slower
Orange lane = 4.421 - 4.103 = 0.318 seconds slower (gold finger)
Black lane = 4.752 - 4.230 = 0.522 seconds slower

Does that help Swiss?
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#37 Brinkley47

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:18 PM

e64adc9feefb7c49e63d288cabce1e81.jpg

Weaver is/was one of the best retro racers in the Northeast.


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#38 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 06:35 PM

My point is the hawk has slowed down (with the new batch) and the psfk has not. I know the psfk has more speed overall. That was never a debate.

Since Swiss likes math
Here are the 7r results compared to the R (or older) hawks:
Red lane = 4.693 - 4.264 = 0.429 seconds slower
White lane = 4.624 - 4.177 = 0.477 seconds slower
Orange lane = 4.421 - 4.103 = 0.318 seconds slower (gold finger)
Black lane = 4.752 - 4.230 = 0.522 seconds slower

 

Was that picture from a heat?

 

If so, then I'm guessing the times on red, white, and black were turned by other racers in that heat?

 

Comparing them to Willy's record times really isn't a comparison.

 

I'm not debating there were more fast older Retro Hawks.

 

My point has been the 7R has been competitive.

 

After I narrowed the tires, I ran the most laps,that second half of the Sano Can-Am A Main.

 

No, I didn't have a winning car.

 

But for having 5-6 laps of practice with it, pre-race, for a 7R and those crappy JK tires you've been complaining about, I thought the car was pretty sporty.

 

And Greg Fox's third-place 7R car was pretty sporty also.


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Mike Swiss
 
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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#39 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:29 PM

When the new 7R motors came out the goal was not to make them faster but rather to make them more consistent. More consistent is worse for the racer going through motors looking for that silver bullet.

 

Are the new motors slower? Probably, but overall not by much.

Are there fewer of the rocket motors out there? Yes, and they are probably not as fast as the old rocket motors.

Are the motors more consistent overall? Probably. 

 

In my book overall not a bad deal for a $12.95 disposable motor that provides a lot of close competitive racing.

 

Can you go faster than the 7R motor? Yes, without question if faster is the only goal.


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Eddie Fleming

#40 Samiam

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:14 PM

Race results from last race at Port Jeff Raceway

 

Stock Car     fast lap   total      motor

1st      Dom    4.501  310.01    R

2nd  X-Pro     4.546   309.13    7R

3rd  Chubby   4,526   305.16    7R

 

Can-Am

1st  Chubby  3.863     360.02   7R

2nd  X-Pro    3.862     359.07   7R

3rd  Edsel     3.915     358         R 

 

Apples to apples.

No bananas.


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Sam Levitch
 
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#41 Brinkley47

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:38 PM

When the new 7R motors came out the goal was not to make them faster but rather to make them more consistent.

 

I don't believe they are more consistent, Eddie. I think they are far less consistent than the older versions of Hawks. I would not be happy with a 7R rule because I think the harder brush (7R) motors are junk. They surge a lot. My best 7R motors are beast when they are fast but if they don't spin up, they look like they are about to blow. I thought my R4 Can-Am motor did blow and then two heats later it is a rocket again.

I would love to see JK fix this. I am not sure they can. I ran mostly Jk products for a long time (tires, chassis, motor). The last 6-12 months the quality has fallen off the map.

For those saying it is a cheap motor, I agree. Why should we expect less for the same price? The older Hawk motors were more consistent and didn't take as much work to get fast. Why put the labor and cost on the racer??

Just my personal opinion.


Will Brinkley
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#42 Butters37

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:43 PM

The problem is in my mind one thing. The R motors and the made in China motors, etc., are no longer available. They are gone and not coming back. I pushed for the org. to go 7R only after we ran the first batch at the R4. They were great. Good speed and great brakes. What seemed like a great step. (Just in case a certain owner wants to know, 14.1 volts. Way higher than the recommended voltage,)

So the switch was made... and then the second batch came around. The R4 and Sano, if I'm not mistaken, were motors out of the first batch? And the secod batch has been going into blisters lately. Well, now some are saying they are not as good and slower, etc. That's a debate still raging.

What my question is... why is the IRRA® not simply just moving to only 7R motors only? Across the board. The old motors can't be purchased (unless from racers online or in person). The normal racer and the broad spectrum of racers can only buy the 7R motors at this point. Why not just simply move on and not allow the R motors? You were pretty quick to want the Puppy Dog out a year or so ago why not just do the same with the fabled R motors. They are out of production and gone. Simply ban them. Not even if the motors are say .4 slower a lap, who cares? All of them are.

 

Maybe then a manufacturer will not blame racers and racers will not say a manufacturer is selling crap. We will all just be back to simply buying motors and going to races


Jason Engel

#43 JimF

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:32 PM

Just wondering, are these stellar results from the PSFK achieved with stock brushes and springs and out-of-the-bag hood alignment?

 

IOW... dead stock like R & 7R motors?


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Jim Fowler

#44 willy wonka

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:21 AM

I won both races Saturday using two PSFKs.

 

One was brand new bought the weekend before at ORS race at MMW.  Broke it in on power supply. Ran that in F1, broke track record by three laps. Can-Am was an older one, broke record by two laps. Both using stock brushes.


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William Custer
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#45 Jason Holmes

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:36 PM

Jim

 

I have ran the PSFK's both ways and can't tell the difference 

 

Jason



#46 JimF

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:28 AM

Jim

 

I have ran the PSFK's both ways and can't tell the difference 

 

Jason

 

That there is an eye opener (and from a trusted source I might add)


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Jim Fowler

#47 Milkman

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:38 AM

Real winners don't quit.  You roll with the punches and keep on plugging.  You can't always have it your way.  The best racers in my book don't give up and always show up because they enjoy the racing and the racers they compete with.


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Ken Stevens
Speedstar - Go fast, stay on, do laps!!

#48 Samiam

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:03 AM

New total lap record and new lane record for all eight lanes today at MMW in OH. The new batch of PSFKs work amazing. This is what happens when a company improves their product.

23 entries today for BRS (PSFK) - new records across the board.
23 entries last week for ORS (retro hawk) - half a second slower than the record.

I am usually not the smartest guy in the room. However, I feel like this should be a sign for all Retro racers.

 

So this new batch is faster than the old ones. Now all the old motors are obsolete. Racers are forced to go out and get all new motors. That is some improvement, Huh? . 


Sam Levitch
 
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#49 gc4895

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:28 AM

Delete.
Mark Bauer

#50 willy wonka

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 07:19 AM

So this new batch is faster than the old ones. Now all the old motors are obsolete. Racers are forced to go out and get all new motors. That is some improvement, Huh? . 


Won last two BRS retro races held at MMW in canton Ohio with old motors. So there u have it. :)
William Custer
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