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PSFK doing work at Mark's Model World


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#26 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:56 AM

We all know the Pro Slot is faster. That has been proven before. If that is the point then this conversation is over. We can all agree The Pro Slot is faster.

 

But no we will do this again in order to beat down the JK Retro Hawk.


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#27 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:01 AM

My point was the claim of the 7R being a half second off of some record, seemed like an exaggeration.

I would have questioned it earlier, but I had 3 parties and non-stop rentals until closing.

The old batches of Retro Hawks weren't as fast as 4002FK's.

Why would anyone think the 7Rs should be? LOL.

Any dopes that say they are the same spec, always conveniently skip that the brush size and spring configuration is totally different.

PS: I hadn't seen Eddie's post when I had made mine.


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Mike Swiss
 
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#28 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:08 AM

The 7R is a bit off even the old Hawks at Mark's. At tracks where speed is all you need the 7R will be mincemeat.

 

Screenshot_20171217-074031.png


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#29 Samiam

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:08 AM

Sealed motor racing is all about trust in the integrity of the so called seal.

 

Read my tag line in my signature.


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#30 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:08 AM

How's 3 tenths of a second, Swiss?

Is that more accurate?


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#31 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:39 AM

Is the 4.10 on orange a Retro Hawk time or a 4002FK time?


Mike Swiss
 
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#32 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:11 AM

A RH.


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#33 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:32 AM

So your best Can-Am race lap, last week, was 4.42?


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#34 Alan Dodson

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 02:30 PM

I don't care about which motor is faster, what I do care about is how many I have to buy to get a raceable motor! I have been racing PSFK's in Dallas and I have 2 outstanding motors out of 15. I have 8 that are ok for monthly races, but I won't be in contention for a win. I have 5 that are jig motors. I only have 2 RH's, one is very good and one is not. I know that's not enough to make a comparison, but so far my percentages are better with the RH.

Just sayin'


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#35 willy wonka

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 03:13 PM

So your best CanAm race lap, last week, was 4.42?


That was f1 and yes my best time in Orange in f1 with a 7r is a 4.4 and record with a hawk is a 4.1 on Orange
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#36 Brinkley47

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:10 PM

My point is the hawk has slowed down (with the new batch) and the psfk has not. I know the psfk has more speed overall. That was never a debate.

Since Swiss likes math
Here are the 7r results compared to the R (or older) hawks:
Red lane = 4.693 - 4.264 = 0.429 seconds slower
White lane = 4.624 - 4.177 = 0.477 seconds slower
Orange lane = 4.421 - 4.103 = 0.318 seconds slower (gold finger)
Black lane = 4.752 - 4.230 = 0.522 seconds slower

Does that help Swiss?
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#37 Brinkley47

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:18 PM

e64adc9feefb7c49e63d288cabce1e81.jpg

Weaver is/was one of the best retro racers in the Northeast.


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#38 MSwiss

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 06:35 PM

My point is the hawk has slowed down (with the new batch) and the psfk has not. I know the psfk has more speed overall. That was never a debate.

Since Swiss likes math
Here are the 7r results compared to the R (or older) hawks:
Red lane = 4.693 - 4.264 = 0.429 seconds slower
White lane = 4.624 - 4.177 = 0.477 seconds slower
Orange lane = 4.421 - 4.103 = 0.318 seconds slower (gold finger)
Black lane = 4.752 - 4.230 = 0.522 seconds slower

 

Was that picture from a heat?

 

If so, then I'm guessing the times on red, white, and black were turned by other racers in that heat?

 

Comparing them to Willy's record times really isn't a comparison.

 

I'm not debating there were more fast older Retro Hawks.

 

My point has been the 7R has been competitive.

 

After I narrowed the tires, I ran the most laps,that second half of the Sano Can-Am A Main.

 

No, I didn't have a winning car.

 

But for having 5-6 laps of practice with it, pre-race, for a 7R and those crappy JK tires you've been complaining about, I thought the car was pretty sporty.

 

And Greg Fox's third-place 7R car was pretty sporty also.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#39 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:29 PM

When the new 7R motors came out the goal was not to make them faster but rather to make them more consistent. More consistent is worse for the racer going through motors looking for that silver bullet.

 

Are the new motors slower? Probably, but overall not by much.

Are there fewer of the rocket motors out there? Yes, and they are probably not as fast as the old rocket motors.

Are the motors more consistent overall? Probably. 

 

In my book overall not a bad deal for a $12.95 disposable motor that provides a lot of close competitive racing.

 

Can you go faster than the 7R motor? Yes, without question if faster is the only goal.


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#40 Samiam

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:14 PM

Race results from last race at Port Jeff Raceway

 

Stock Car     fast lap   total      motor

1st      Dom    4.501  310.01    R

2nd  X-Pro     4.546   309.13    7R

3rd  Chubby   4,526   305.16    7R

 

Can-Am

1st  Chubby  3.863     360.02   7R

2nd  X-Pro    3.862     359.07   7R

3rd  Edsel     3.915     358         R 

 

Apples to apples.

No bananas.


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#41 Brinkley47

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:38 PM

When the new 7R motors came out the goal was not to make them faster but rather to make them more consistent.

 

I don't believe they are more consistent, Eddie. I think they are far less consistent than the older versions of Hawks. I would not be happy with a 7R rule because I think the harder brush (7R) motors are junk. They surge a lot. My best 7R motors are beast when they are fast but if they don't spin up, they look like they are about to blow. I thought my R4 Can-Am motor did blow and then two heats later it is a rocket again.

I would love to see JK fix this. I am not sure they can. I ran mostly Jk products for a long time (tires, chassis, motor). The last 6-12 months the quality has fallen off the map.

For those saying it is a cheap motor, I agree. Why should we expect less for the same price? The older Hawk motors were more consistent and didn't take as much work to get fast. Why put the labor and cost on the racer??

Just my personal opinion.


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#42 Butters37

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:43 PM

The problem is in my mind one thing. The R motors and the made in China motors, etc., are no longer available. They are gone and not coming back. I pushed for the org. to go 7R only after we ran the first batch at the R4. They were great. Good speed and great brakes. What seemed like a great step. (Just in case a certain owner wants to know, 14.1 volts. Way higher than the recommended voltage,)

So the switch was made... and then the second batch came around. The R4 and Sano, if I'm not mistaken, were motors out of the first batch? And the secod batch has been going into blisters lately. Well, now some are saying they are not as good and slower, etc. That's a debate still raging.

What my question is... why is the IRRA® not simply just moving to only 7R motors only? Across the board. The old motors can't be purchased (unless from racers online or in person). The normal racer and the broad spectrum of racers can only buy the 7R motors at this point. Why not just simply move on and not allow the R motors? You were pretty quick to want the Puppy Dog out a year or so ago why not just do the same with the fabled R motors. They are out of production and gone. Simply ban them. Not even if the motors are say .4 slower a lap, who cares? All of them are.

 

Maybe then a manufacturer will not blame racers and racers will not say a manufacturer is selling crap. We will all just be back to simply buying motors and going to races


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#43 JimF

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:32 PM

Just wondering, are these stellar results from the PSFK achieved with stock brushes and springs and out-of-the-bag hood alignment?

 

IOW... dead stock like R & 7R motors?


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#44 willy wonka

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:21 AM

I won both races Saturday using two PSFKs.

 

One was brand new bought the weekend before at ORS race at MMW.  Broke it in on power supply. Ran that in F1, broke track record by three laps. Can-Am was an older one, broke record by two laps. Both using stock brushes.


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#45 Jason Holmes

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:36 PM

Jim

 

I have ran the PSFK's both ways and can't tell the difference 

 

Jason



#46 JimF

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:28 AM

Jim

 

I have ran the PSFK's both ways and can't tell the difference 

 

Jason

 

That there is an eye opener (and from a trusted source I might add)


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#47 Milkman

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:38 AM

Real winners don't quit.  You roll with the punches and keep on plugging.  You can't always have it your way.  The best racers in my book don't give up and always show up because they enjoy the racing and the racers they compete with.


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#48 Samiam

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:03 AM

New total lap record and new lane record for all eight lanes today at MMW in OH. The new batch of PSFKs work amazing. This is what happens when a company improves their product.

23 entries today for BRS (PSFK) - new records across the board.
23 entries last week for ORS (retro hawk) - half a second slower than the record.

I am usually not the smartest guy in the room. However, I feel like this should be a sign for all Retro racers.

 

So this new batch is faster than the old ones. Now all the old motors are obsolete. Racers are forced to go out and get all new motors. That is some improvement, Huh? . 


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#49 gc4895

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:28 AM

Delete.
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#50 willy wonka

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 07:19 AM

So this new batch is faster than the old ones. Now all the old motors are obsolete. Racers are forced to go out and get all new motors. That is some improvement, Huh? . 


Won last two BRS retro races held at MMW in canton Ohio with old motors. So there u have it. :)
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