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2 degree tongue with new Red Fox guide


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#1 MSwiss

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:17 PM

I sold Red Fox guides and 2 degree guide tongues to a customer recently.

 

While I've sold quite a bit of both, I personally, have never used one of 2 degree tongues, so (he and) I am wondering does this seem right?

 

My customer thought the angle looked on the big side.

 

Has anyone confirmed if the RF guide is indeed 2 degrees as rumored.

 

 

msg-697-0-59381000-1516053065.jpg


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#2 Half Fast

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 10:53 PM

There was an older Red Fox guide that had an angled post. The new guide looks 90 degrees to my eye.

 

Cheers


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#3 swodem

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 04:26 AM

Best as I can show you using Photoshop. Take into account the distortion of the wide angle lens, the image isn’t sharp, and it's not square to the camera.
The two red lines are exactly 2Degrees different

04e5adb53a4bf18ce65a8b716783e8e6.jpg

In my mind, 2 degrees is overkill. 

1 degree would be perfect in most situations, overcoming the angle of rear chassis clearance/slammed at the front. Just enough so that you're not running weighted at the front of the braid....

 

looks pretty close to 2 degrees to me!

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#4 Rob Voska

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:31 AM

Most guide threaders are designed to thread "square" so I think the posts get threaded more straight than angled.  I have shimmed mine up in the front when I angle thread them.



#5 swodem

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:40 AM

Rob that doesn’t give you a flat bearing plane tho..

That means it’ll bind as it rotates


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#6 Rob Voska

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 08:27 AM

Not if you face the guide on the same angle with the post.



#7 Gary Pershall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 08:33 AM

Best as I can show you using Photoshop. Take into account the distortion of the wide angle lens, the image isn’t sharp, and it's not square to the camera.
The two red lines are exactly 2Degrees different

04e5adb53a4bf18ce65a8b716783e8e6.jpg

In my mind, 2 degrees is overkill. 

1 degree would be perfect in most situations, overcoming the angle of rear chassis clearance/slammed at the front. Just enough so that you're not running weighted at the front of the braid....

 

looks pretty close to 2 degrees to me!

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This is my chassis. I've not built or setup a chassis for close to 15 years and I was not sure if the angle was excessive. I knew that Mike's 2 deg. tongue was correct so I thought that I might have installed wrong. I resoldered just to make sure I had it flat. I may also have the guide installed too high. It is soldered to .064 brass.



#8 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

Two questions 

 

 Is there enough rake in the chassis? High enough in rear low enough in front.

 

 Is that little tab on the rear of the flag? With no spacers it will create extra angle by not letting the flag set flat.


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#9 Gary Pershall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 09:51 AM

I just rechecked again and NO there is not enough rake. With .820 tires there is only about .045 rear clearance. Need to reset my rear axle height. I have a new Backtrack Retro Pro jig on the way from Chicagoland Raceways so this should help get everything squared away.

 

Yes the little tab is still on the guide, and I do not have any spacers installed yet..

 

Thanks everyone, no local track that does Retro racing so Slotblog is my friend and mentor and I need to double check things better... LOL



#10 Pablo

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:43 AM

I'm just guessing but it looks like you combined a 2 deg. tongue with a flag that has some angle built in to the shaft as well, resulting in a lot of angle. Red Fox has been known to make those.


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#11 Gary Pershall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 11:01 AM

I'm just guessing but it looks like you combined a 2 deg. tongue with a flag that has some angle built in to the shaft as well, resulting in a lot of angle. Red Fox has been known to make those.

I checked the flag and the post looks pretty much at a 90 from the bottom surface.

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#12 dalek

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 11:36 AM

The new long Red Fox guide I checked yesterday definitely has angle built into it compared to 3 JK and 1 Parma guide I have.  

 

I installed all of those guides on my Defender chassis yesterday.  I tightened the guide nut to where there was a little bit of drag in order to not get a false reading due to slop.  I made sure I didn't tighten the nut to the point that I pulled any angle out of the post that might be there.

 

The RF guide was flat on the plate but the other guides, with some variation, were off of the plate in the back.

 

I want to do on-the-track comparisons of the RF guide to the others so I tweaked the tongue enough so that all of the guides have at least a tiny bit of up angle.  The RF guide, of course, has a little bit more than the others but from my experience, I don't consider it excessive.

 

AFAIK, it might be possible to compensate for excessive gude angle by shaping the guide braid so it has a bigger radius where it wraps under the guide at the front.


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#13 swodem

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

 
...AFAIK, it might be possible to compensate for excessive gude angle by shaping the guide braid so it has a bigger radius where it wraps under the guide at the front.


No,the braids will flatten out quickly


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#14 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 08:34 PM

I run my guides set at 5 degrees on all my chassis that see banked tracks. Flat tracks i run 2-3 degrees. 


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#15 Gary Pershall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:50 PM

I just rechecked again and NO there is not enough rake. With .820 tires there is only about .045 rear clearance. Need to reset my rear axle height. I have a new Backtrack Retro Pro jig on the way from Chicagoland Raceways so this should help get everything squared away.

 

Yes the little tab is still on the guide, and I do not have any spacers installed yet..

 

Thanks everyone, no local track that does Retro racing so Slotblog is my friend and mentor and I need to double check things better... LOL

Received the new Backtrack Retro Pro jig today. Thanks Mike for the quick shipment. Tomorrow I'll check everything over with the new jig.

It sure looks like a quality jig... now just have to figure out how to use it..

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