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IRRA® motor announcement


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#76 Rich Goucher

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:55 AM

Bob,

 

What's super-awesome is when a raceway owner, who PM'd me, asking me how to get kids in his raceway, (and I answered despite being swamped at the time) posts a link to a laser engraver on Ebay, alluding to some sort of newly created cheating opportunity.

 

Oh, and to top that off, he has a Retro race, run under IRRA® rules, scheduled at his raceway in approx. 3 weeks.

 

Yes, it's great to be appreciated.

Mike Swiss

 

Ynow, Mike, a little humor interjected into a situation is sometimes a good thing.

I can't help it if you don't know what "LOL" at the end of a post means.

The engraver post was meant to allude to the next possible round of foolishness

that the motor rule invites, not that I would do it or disrespect the BOD's efforts.

 

You want to throw me under the bus for that? Have a nice life.


Rich Goucher
 
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#77 John Streisguth

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:40 AM

Not that Swiss needs me to stick up for him, but I missed the joke as well. I guess it was too subtle  :laugh2:

 

What I did find amusing is some of the listings for those units...$17 with $180 shipping.  Whaaaa???? :dash2:


"Whatever..."

#78 willy wonka

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:54 AM

Retro Palooza at Port Jefferson Raceway in June will be the first IRRA Premier Event influenced by the IRRA new motor rules.
Many different opinions.
The most important point is to make 2018 RP as successful as, or more successful than 2017RP.
In addition to the regular out of state racers, Jason Holmes, Duran, Alex are expected to race there.
Our Team Tokyo racers at Buena Park Raceway, Fast Eddie and Jay Henry are considering to race there.
6 Retro Tokyo racers including myself have already bought the air tickets between Tokyo and JFK.
We will be there whatever motor rules may be enforced.
R4 will be held in March under the motor rules in which any Retro Hawks with long shafts will be legal for all the classes except for hand-out GTC class.
How about make it same for Retro Palooza in June, just a few months after R4.
A small modification would make it easier for many people.
Major rule changes are better to be announced well in advance, at least 6month, preferably 12 months, before their enforcement.
Good Racing,
Haruki

 

Same here haruki. I feel a 12 month time frame would have made so much sense. Unless they knew something is on the horizon?
A one year window could have made it go over A lot smoother with the racers and race tracks/ promoters. It would have made the transition a lot better IMO and gave everyone a little more time to plan accordingly. Racers have always planned well in advanced and now you have guys like Jason that was coming under the assumption nothing was changing. Does the BOD not take into consideration for the folks who plan and prepare well in advance of yearly races?


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#79 Noose

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:12 AM

Five months is not enough to prepare? Really? Yet getting a hand-out two hours before tech not knowing what you got is acceptable?  Having a motor no one else can get anymore is acceptable? That is supposed to be fair?

 

All of this was taken into consideration before this announcement.

 

I personally have plenty of R motors and have no problem using them up in our series before the Premier races or after as practice motors. After that I will give them to guys who can use them for flexi racing or whatever else they can be used in.

 

Have I had a couple of the golden super fast Rs? Yup, but few and far between and for sure the 7Rs are more equal to each other in performance.

 

I also have not had the issues claimed with 7Rs but I guess that's me. Most  of mine are all newer ones obtained from leftovers from RP, FB, and the Sano. No issues at all.


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#80 willy wonka

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:43 AM

Well, your claim is they're much closer in performance so why not hand-outs at Premier races? Oh, that's right because Noose will stay home, oh boo-hoo. Why must you only get them two hours before the race? The biggest Retro race in the country can do hand-outs, any other one can, too. But you didn't take into consideration you told Jason and others nothing was gonna change. Surprise.

 

Those questions about motor availability you shouldn't be asking the racers but instead asking Tim those questions. When I bought motors that's what was available, not my problem but now Tim and the BoD has made it my problem. Thanks, guys.  :)


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#81 JBProducts

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:45 AM

It's the people who bought these motors for races such as RetroPalooza or Fall Brawl which is past 4/1/18.
 
I understand that your guys' job is extremely difficult because regardless people will not be happy about it, but honestly I don't think three months is enough time and also it's extremely weird that all of a sudden these motors went for sale than bam they went illegal, though I know the BoD didn't do this on purpose.


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#82 JBProducts

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:47 AM

Though regardless of the rule change i will be at the events :)

I have plenty of 7R's. I just wanted to say my peace.  :)


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#83 Noose

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:48 AM

Jeff, the reason for 4/1 is the R4 is in March thus the next race is not until June. Thus five months. We did not want to confuse people that it applied to the R4 since the allowed motors were already announced.

 

We had nothing to do nor had any knowledge of the sudden sale of R motors from JK or anyone else.


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#84 JBProducts

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 09:09 AM

Thanks for all the work you guys do though, it's not an easy job.  :)


Jeff Bonanno

#85 glueside

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 09:31 AM

I beat all the Retro East A Mainers in coupe all using the same motor. The accusations flying that people need special motors is dumb. No we would just like to have time to at the very least use our old motors up.

 

I agree with you, Willy. I have raced against you and you are head and shoulders above me so it doesn't matter.

 

There are five things that make the difference - motor, body, chassis, tires, and the person behind the trigger. IRRA® is just taking one of the variables out of the equation - motor. You will still be up top and will be for years!


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#86 MSwiss

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:36 AM

Not that Swiss needs me to stick up for him, but I missed the joke as well. I guess it was too subtle.   :laugh2:

 

Ynow, Mike, a little humor interjected into a situation is sometimes a good thing.
I can't help it if you don't know what "LOL" at the end of a post means.

 

I saw the LOL, but I don't believe it's a license to say whatever you want. Like John said, I missed the humor.
 
I guess it didn't help that Ron Hershman posted the same thing on FB SCRT. I don't recall if he added an "LOL."  :laugh2: :laugh2:
 
Regardless, thanks for responding.
 
Case closed.


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#87 MSwiss

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:48 AM

The IRRA® will consider reinstating pre-7R Retro Hawks, depending on the performance level of future batches of Retro Hawks and any newly-approved motors.

 

Five months

 

Jason, Willy, Haruki,

 

We just made this announcement approx. 36 hours ago. Please give it some time to play itself out.
 
Any, or all, of the below may happen;
 
1 - The next batch of 7Rs are fine. We reinstate the old motors.
 
2 - The motors that Professor Motor are submitting to the the IRRA® BoD today, perform like a prominent racer's FB post claims they do. We reinstate the old motors.
 
3 - Some yet TBD manufacturer submits a good-performing motor. We reinstate the old motors.
 
If any of the three scenarios come to fruition, all the previous hand-wringing has gone for nought.
 
I have a party from 11 AM-1 PM, today.
 
I'm going to lock this this thread until the party is over, so no one misses any of the above points, most importantly #2.
 
In the meantime, everyone can let their IRRA® Beatin' Sticks® cool down for 192 minutes until I reopen it.


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Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#88 Jason Holmes

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:55 PM

Mike

 

I hope you're right at this. Time with the Info I was given about the motor problem and the RP I was told to book it all would stay the same now this I put up all the $$ for everything on these answers and look what happens .

 

Do you really Tim is going to eat this batch and order a new one? Would be nice but I think not.

 

I have said hand-outs would be okay for me at the RP but I've been told by the racers from out here that were going old rules (any long shaft RH) or no show. That sucks for me on the $$ side and Doug at PJ because most for the time at the travel races we spend $1,500 or more. So I hope our crystal ball is right.

 

Jason



#89 Tim Neja

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:03 PM

Hand-outs solve the problem of which motor as everyone gets a level playing field. It's been proven it doesn't take too much time to do this. Kudos to the IRRA® for trying to solve a problem situation. Nothing is perfect in our little motor world!  

 

I'm not sure throwing more motors at the problem solves anything! Isn't that exactly how we got here?? We used to have TSRs, Falcons, and Puppy Dogs!! Then the Retro Hawk was introduced despite the fact it was a little faster – and it outdated all the other motors!! Is it a good thing to have that possibly happen again??  


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She's real fine, my 409!!!

#90 MSwiss

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:40 PM

Tim,
 
A minor aside.

When we approved the Retro Hawk, it was because we needed a new hand-out. 
 
Falcon 7s had not been available, and all the info we were getting on their future availability, was "mañana."

The first Premier race that the Retro Hawk was legal to use, in all classes, R4, Puppy Dogs still won.

The Retro Hawk became popular because it was a $12 chance at a bullet, instead of a $51 one, and regardless of price, the yield was better, at that day in time.

It also eliminated the temptation to invest another $18, hoping a new $51 dud would come back a stud.

The most ridiculous claim, in the 576+ post thread, on FB SCRT, is that we had more entries when the Puppy Dog was the motor of choice.

When R4 was getting 60-70 entries, may they rest in peace, Jim Bostrum, Sano Dave Fiedler, Jay Kisling, Rande Marshall, Bob Oaks, Manta Ray Price, and probably a few I may have missed, were all still walking the earth.

Racers like Ray Price, a good friend of mine, raced Retro, because of the building, and all the excitement generated here on Slotblog.

He could give a flying F on the motor we used. He would have raced it whether we used a Puppy Dog, a Falcon 7, or a twisted rubber band.
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Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#91 JK Products

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:46 PM

To set the record straight concerning the assertion that original Hawk™ R motor sales were in any way associated with any recent decisions by the IRRA® board, I was blindsided by their decision. There was no “collusion” in any way, shape, or form that I was aware of.

 

Here is what happened with the R motors. Shortly after I bought the business from Jerry in 2015, he did some consulting work for me. He accepted payment by motors (the original Hawk™ R standard motors at that time) instead of receiving a check. I completely forgot about this until Jerry contacted me at the very end of 2017 about selling them. His non-compete precluded him selling any stock JK Products® goods (not personal items) until 2018. He also couldn’t sell under list price.

 

He confirmed that it was now OK to sell the motors and I agreed. After selling two lots on eBay, the second barely over list price (actually under list price after accounting for eBay and PayPal fees), he contacted me and asked if I would sell them for him as he didn’t want to be bothered. I said I would. 

 

Tim


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#92 usadar

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:42 PM

pm.jpg

Mike,

Is this Professor Motor unit a Retro Hawk equivalent?

Haruki
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Where do we go from here: chaos or community?

#93 MSwiss

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:52 PM

Haruki,

Yes, that is it.

It is not approved yet, so you might want to limit your order to a few gross. LOL.

Also, the amount available that shows on the Professor Motor website does not indicate the true number they have available. They have many more. They enter them into that ordering system, an XXX number at a time.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#94 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:11 PM

To set the record straight concerning the assertion that original Hawk™ R motor sales were in any way associated with any recent decisions by the IRRA® board, I was blindsided by their decision. There was no “collusion” in any way, shape, or form that I was aware of.

 

Here is what happened with the R motors. Shortly after I bought the business from Jerry in 2015, he did some consulting work for me. He accepted payment by motors (the original Hawk™ R standard motors at that time) instead of receiving a check. I completely forgot about this until Jerry contacted me at the very end of 2017 about selling them. His non-compete precluded him selling any stock JK Products® goods (not personal items) until 2018. He also couldn’t sell under list price.

 

He confirmed that it was now OK to sell the motors and I agreed. After selling two lots on eBay, the second barely over list price (actually under list price after accounting for eBay and PayPal fees), he contacted me and asked if I would sell them for him as he didn’t want to be bothered. I said I would. 

 

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Hopefully this will put to rest this ridiculous accusation many are targeting on JK. The number of absurd conspiracy theories being bandied about concerning the motor situation would make a script even the "X Files" wouldn't touch.


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#95 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:07 PM

I would like to throw out another point of view not that anyone will give a damn.
 
 Tim (JK) came into this with people complaining about the inconsistent motor situation. Too many dogs and never enough bullets. Brushes are too soft, brushes are too hard, whatever. He has tried to make the situation better.  
 
I for one thank Tim for his efforts. That includes the successes and the warts as well. I hope Tim chooses to continue to produce products for our hobby.
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Eddie Fleming

#96 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:31 PM

Good point, Eddie!
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#97 glueside

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 08:27 AM

Tim (JK) came into this with people complaining about the inconsistent motor situation. Too many dogs and never enough bullets. Brushes are too soft, brushes are too hard, whatever. He has tried to make the situation better.  
 
I for one thank Tim for his efforts. That includes the successes and the warts as well. I hope Tim chooses to continue to produce products for our hobby.

 
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
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#98 Brinkley47

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 12:08 PM

To set the record straight concerning the assertion that original Hawk R motor sales were in any way associated with any recent decisions by the IRRA® board, I was blindsided by their decision. There was no collusion in any way, shape, or form that I was aware of.

 

How could you be blindsided by this decision?

Did the IRRA® and JK not talk about the current issues before their decision was made? I certainly hope so.

It sounds like that may not have happened. I actually got lucky you didn't process my order. The other racers who ordered those Rs sure got the shaft.

Maybe not collusion, but communication (between IRRA® and JK) sure could have saved the racers some money.


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#99 Cheater

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 12:43 PM

Most of the BoD communicated extensively with Tim leading up to this decision.
 
The point you're missing, Will, is that there isn't any decision for Tim to learn until the BoD actually makes one, which happens at the end of extensive discussion between the five of us (which doesn't include Tim) and which went on for almost two months.
 
Every BoD member Tim talked to could have given him a different impression of what action might be taken but that's not the same as the ultimate decision.
 

... sure could have saved the racers some money.

 
Only those racers who decided on their own to purchase older motors they hoped would be legal going forward. Guesses sometimes work and sometimes they don't, but the blame when they don't needs to be properly assigned.


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#100 Jason Holmes

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 01:07 PM

So, Greg, the BoD has been talking for two months about this? Wow and I was told spend your money all is good, no changes coming, when I bought tickets to the RP at the end of Dec.

 

As were the one's coming from Japan you just can't drop turds like this an expect people not to say they don't stink, sorry.

 

jason 


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