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Commercial tire grinding set-up


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#1 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 10:23 PM

What does a commercial tire grinding setup look like?
David Parrotta




#2 Phil Hackett

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 10:46 PM

It could be anything from a manual machine to a complete CNC grinding machine.

 

Simplicity is best and unless you're knocking out 10,000 pair/year (that's not that many, really. 800 pair/month) you need to keep it simple.

 

Just for everyone's info: you're not going to be making any volume of tires when a Hrudy truer. That's not what that machine was designed or built for.

 

And to stop the insistant question asked of me/Sonic, NO I/we do not build tire truers for sale.


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#3 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:42 AM

Phil,

I agree a HUDY or any small form factor grinder is far.. very far from ideal.

Im considering the use of either a 6",1/4 hp 3400 rpm (5340 feet a min), or 8", 1/2hp 3,600rpm (7500 feet per min) bench grinder(s) or a 1x30", 1/3hp (3620 feet per min) bench top belt sander to drive the abrasive.

The 3 options have dramatically different abrasive speeds. I have no experence in this area. Any input?
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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:14 AM

I doubt a belt sander would get you any precision.

Maybe just to quickly rough it out.

I've been talking to one of my guys on offering a commercial grade unit, to sell, and we agree, the key is to have a profiled grinding wheel.
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Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#5 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:36 AM

A belt sander will not give consistent diameter without many adjustments and oops tires (errors) to be right.   The profiled stone with edge radii built in is the way Booth (1990s), Parma and JK have made tires for years.  The larger the stone diameter, the slower the motor can be since the EDGE speed is the goal.  We TOAA members toured the Parma factory in 2000 or 2001 and got to see their large wheel setup - very custom.


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#6 Phil Hackett

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:19 AM

Phil,

I agree a HUDY or any small form factor grinder is far.. very far from ideal.

Im considering the use of either a 6",1/4 hp 3400 rpm (5340 feet a min), or 8", 1/2hp 3,600rpm (7500 feet per min) bench grinder(s) or a 1x30", 1/3hp (3620 feet per min) bench top belt sander to drive the abrasive.

The 3 options have dramatically different abrasive speeds. I have no experence in this area. Any input?

 

 

The bigger the wheel the bigger the motor needed to drive it. I wouldn't get any motor for the wheel less than 1/2hp, 1hp preferred, 3/4hp a nice compromise. This is for a 6 or 7 inch wheel. A 8" wheel will most definity require a 3/4hp. Assuming you're going to be using 1phase 110v, you don't want the motor bogging down and tripping the motor starting circuit while grinding. Not good.

 

Make sure to match the wheel speed and motor speed.

 

You are going to need wheel adapters. The best wheels will have a 1 1/4" bore on them. If you're planning on using the wheels used with bench grinders you're going to be unhappy. They are too "hard" and tend to be too fine of a grit. I believe McMaster-Carr has adapters for this application.

 

Make sure you have a proper wheel guard. You *will* be very impressed if the wheel lets go. I saw it happen years ago (not at Sonic) and it was like a grenade going off...


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#7 John Streisguth

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:25 AM

We have a set up for rough grinding urethane coated rollers with one of these.  Admittedly a little extreme for slot car tires, but I thought some might find it interesting.  You definitely do NOT want to touch one of these when it's spinning!!

 

https://www.oliverco...nding/coatings/


"Whatever..."

#8 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:28 AM

I received several quotes from Asian based tool makers for a diamond grinding wheel with tapered edges. I got the price I wanted but minimum order quantities are very large.
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#9 Danny Zona

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:56 PM

I doubt a belt sander would get you any precision.

Maybe just to quickly rough it out.

I've been talking to one of my guys on offering a commercial grade unit, to sell, and we agree, the key is to have a profiled grinding wheel.

I'll want one. 💯
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

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Success is never owned but rented and rent is due everyday.

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#10 Half Fast

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:26 PM

Wouldn't you need a different profiled grinding wheel for each tire width to be produced.
 
Cheers.

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#11 Dave Crevie

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

To grind tires, with the side radii included, using an abrasive wheel you need at least a 1" wide wheel. These are hard to come by in 6" or smaller

diameters. Jerry (JK) had a custom machine made, and used carbide chip infused wheels for creating the profile. I dressed some aluminum

oxide wheels for him, but they created too much smoke during the grinding operation, even in the coarsest grades. The carbide wheel is the

way to go, because it cuts more than wears the rubber away. And the wheel has cut many, many millions of tires. Personally, I don't see any

sense in setting up the kind of machine you need to cut wheels in bulk. Let the guys that have been doing it for a lifetime handle it. 

 

And yes, you need a different profile wheel for each width you are going to cut.


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#12 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:02 PM

Would silicone carbide wheel work in place of a carbide chip infused grinding wheel?

Let's say it only needs to survive grinding 1000 pair.

Consider I'm using an 8" wheel, would 1500 rpm be preferred over 3600 rpm?
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#13 MSwiss

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:34 PM

And yes, you need a different profile wheel for each width you are going to cut.

Not if your grinder has some sort of cross slide.

 

Then you obviously just need a wheel, the widest width.


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#14 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:38 PM

Mike,

Do you have any photos of production machines you can share?
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#15 MSwiss

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:38 PM

No.


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#16 elvis44102

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:42 PM

Back in the 80's i worked with Jan Limpach and helped make the Fresh Cuts..the machine was hand built and consisted of two motors fairly large one motor had a spindle to allow putting on the uncut tire/wheel assembly...

 

The other motor had a large orange fine grained grinding wheel with the profile (rounded edges and all) cut into the wheel..its been a long time so about all i can recall

is the wheel was maybe 10-12 inches around (big) the motors were fairly big as in 10lbs or so maybe 10inch OD..

 

Everything was extremely solid and well built allowing no extra play to introduce error...we made about 50 pair an hour or so im sure Jan was faster

 

It was ALL built within the framework of an old stereo or TV cabinet made from furniture grade wood   The tire to be cut was stationary (except rotating of course) and the grinding wheel mover into the slotcar tire/wheel


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#17 Phil Hackett

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:01 PM

Back in the 80's i worked with Jan Limpach and helped make the Fresh Cuts..the machine was hand built and consisted of two motors fairly large one motor had a spindle to allow putting on the uncut tire/wheel assembly...

 

The other motor had a large orange fine grained grinding wheel with the profile (rounded edges and all) cut into the wheel..its been a long time so about all i can recall

is the wheel was maybe 10-12 inches around (big) the motors were fairly big as in 10lbs or so maybe 10inch OD..

 

Everything was extremely solid and well built allowing no extra play to introduce error...we made about 50 pair an hour or so im sure Jan was faster

 

It was ALL built within the framework of an old stereo or TV cabinet made from furniture grade wood   The tire to be cut was stationary (except rotating of course) and the grinding wheel mover into the slotcar tire/wheel

 

Back in the SBR days (ancient history) we could cut 125 pair/hour if we really we "in the groove" with our homemade machine. Wonder rubber and the newer materials, not so fast.

 

Power = Production


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#18 Phil Hackett

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:13 PM

Would silicone carbide wheel work in place of a carbide chip infused grinding wheel?

Let's say it only needs to survive grinding 1000 pair.

Consider I'm using an 8" wheel, would 1500 rpm be preferred over 3600 rpm?

 

Use the biggest wheel you can afford (this also affects the motor size and other machine characteristics which will influence cost and size ) and run it near the RPM the wheel is rated for (but not over that speed). Running the wheel slower is not a thing you should design to do; grinding wheels are most efficient at high speeds.

 

1000 pair isn't that many tires for production. You could buy the wheel you need and have a machine together in a weekend with as little as a drill press. There are tire makers who knock out 1000 pair/week (not naming names....)


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#19 havlicek

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:59 AM

 

Wouldn't you need a different profiled grinding wheel for each tire width to be produced.
 
Cheers.

 

 

Of course not, as long as the side radius stays the same regardless of diameter and width...but I saw that Mike also handled that.  IOW, with the grinding wheel being able to move laterally (*with either manual "stops" to limit travel of some kind of CNC setup), you can grind any size tire you want as long as the grinding wheel is as wide or wider than the widest tire you might need to handle.


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#20 Dave Crevie

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:50 PM

Building a machine with a cross slide good enough to consistently cut the tires is complicated and can be expensive. I

suggest designing the unit to plunge grind the tires. Much faster to grind them this way as well. 


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#21 MSwiss

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:11 PM

Building a machine with a cross slide good enough to consistently cut the tires is complicated and can be expensive

Only as complicated and expensive as buying a used surface grinder, a machine shop wants to get rid of, and calling a moving company. LOL


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#22 wbugenis

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:21 PM

I moved RJR's  entire shop without calling a moving company.

 

Here's how:

 


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#23 Phil Hackett

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:35 AM

Only as complicated and expensive as buying a used surface grinder, a machine shop wants to get rid of, and calling a moving company. LOL

 

That's one way of making one but I'm guessing many don't have the room for a surface grinder nor want to have to move a heavy bulky machine around. Plus most homeowners would have to get a phase converter or a VFD to run, almost 100% gauranteed, a 3-phase motor on household power.


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#24 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:29 PM

I've been running this for a month or so. Not a finished product but works great as is. Build cost was very reasonable.

Turns donuts to dust in seconds. No smoke due to 8" metal abrasive wheel and tire run at low rpm. Tire temp increase during aggressive cutting is under 10 degrees.

I use this machine to do an initial cut to size before tires see my Hudy.

 

g1.jpg

 

g2.jpg


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#25 Rob Voska

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:08 AM

Love the connecting rods, wrist pins, bearings, and pistons!


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