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Professor Motor PMTRHR IRRAź motor submission


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#1 MSwiss

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:20 PM

The IRRA® BOD is starting to receive these today.

I got mine. Following will be my personal observations. I won't have time to do anything with them, until tonight.

All I noticed, while taking the below pic, is the unique balancing. It's in the rotation direction, and also perpendicular.

Four motors have correction. One doesn't.

Any comments in this thread that don't pertain to this motor will be deleted.

Thank you.

20180125_125417-1.jpg


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.





#2 Jeff Bonanno

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:46 PM

Awesome!! I will be awaiting your results, I got two in today and i will test them on Sunday before the race at P1 Raceway in Florida (Hillclimb).



#3 Brinkley47

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:56 PM

Look familiar! I expect 1,000 laps today, Swiss.   ;)


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#4 John Gorski

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:02 PM

Same wire size, turns, and magnets as Retro Hawk? 


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#5 kvanpelt

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:03 PM

1,000 laps each motor! :victory:



#6 Noose

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:20 PM

Same wire size, turns, and magnets as Retro Hawk?


John, they could not have been submitted them if they weren’t. Read the announcement.

Of course the specs will be verified.


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#7 kvanpelt

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 04:04 PM

Good luck, I hope testing goes well and we can begin to put all of this motor nonsense behind us!!!  :good:


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#8 Brinkley47

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 04:11 PM

 Agreed.


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#9 Dominator

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:00 PM

Any idea why they would have perpendicular balance marks?

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
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#10 MSwiss

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:06 PM

No.


Mike Swiss
 
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#11 Cheater

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:07 PM

... we can begin to put all of this motor nonsense behind us!!!


You're an eternal optimist, right, KvP?
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#12 Mattb

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:17 PM

Nice to have companies this responsive!


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#13 tonyp

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:39 PM

Breaking mine in now. Will try one Sunday at our GRRR race. Doc and I will give them a good test the following week.
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#14 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:47 PM

   All of the early unmarked Hawk Retros we were getting in SoCal had the same perpendicular balance marks.


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#15 JerseyJohn

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:51 PM

At least they are balanced LOL.
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#16 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:05 PM

Dyna-Rewind used to balance arms this way.


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#17 MSwiss

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:13 PM

Mail order done for today. Back on this.
 
The submitted motor will be referred to by PM and ProM.
 
Many comments here, and by PM, about the ProM balancing.
 
I went ahead and took pics of the one with the most holes.
 
It weighs 22.2 grams, compared to 22.5 grams, for the only one I got without any correction marks.
 
A 7R, also without correction marks, also weighs 22.5 grams.

 

All 5 motors run real smooth.

 

The one with all the holes is no smoother than the rest.
 
20180125_190443-1.jpg

The Ohaus scale I'm using.

 

It hasn't been calibrated in awhile, but it provides good repeatability, so more than adequate for A-B comparisons.

 

 

20180125_190114-1.jpg

 

20180125_190202-1.jpg

 

20180125_190224-1.jpg


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#18 MSwiss

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:49 PM

I took apart one of the PM motors along with a new, bulk 7R, and I had the arm from R motor I took apart for the endbell.
 
Metering arms is a slightly tricky operation. The more you handle them, the higher they will read, from the heat from your hands. Biggest thing is to let them sit for a decent length of time, undisturbed, in the same area and quickly meter them all at once.
 
My metering of them went extremely smooth.
 
I metered them three different times. Each time the difference between the three arms stayed exactly the same.
 
The PM was a slightly duller color than the new 7R, so I hit it with some emery paper. It did not read any lower after I did.
 
Here's how the three metered:
 
Coincidentally, on the two motors I choose to open up, the new 7R arm and the PM arm look remarkably the same.
 
Now with the motors open, the only physical differences I can see, is the PM endbell is slightly darker., more of an amber color.
 
The other thing is instead of a thick, non-metallic spacer on the comm, it has a very thin magnetic spacer. On the pinion end, there wasn't any spacer except for the pressed-on brass spacer.
 
The 7R and R have that plastic spacer on both ends.
 
Total lengths, spacer to spacer:

7R - .925"
R - .918"
PM - .915"
 
20180125_201247-1.jpg

I use a meter that was very popular with the wing racers, back when I did that. IIRC, it was made by Mike Blevins.
 
20180125_200619-1.jpg

Here are the results. They are very close.
 
Lower/less resistance is what you typically want. If this was the 1992 Zeppelin Nats I15 race, and you asked Keith Keeler and 62 of his loyal subjects, probably at least 58 would pick the 7R arm.
 
But as mentioned, they are very close.
 
With those numbers, I'm 98% sure the arm is 65 turns 30 AWG. Otherwise it would have to be something odd, like 72 turns 29 AWG, or 61 turns 31 AWG. But of course, I'll dewind it to confirm.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#19 MSwiss

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:33 PM

The motor dewound easily, and as expected by the meter numbers, it had 65 turns on each pole.
 
Here's the difference in wire length on the three poles.
 
In my 20% personal opinion, Professor Motor submitted a motor with the required specs to be considered for approval.
 
20180125_212851-1.jpg
 
Lets see if I can get a motor in a car, before I leave.
 
I've had two running dry for 6 hours + on 6v.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#20 MSwiss

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:53 PM

The two motors started up at approximately 3.6A when new.

After 6-7 hours, they are both drawing approximately 5.5A.

20180125_214754-1.jpg

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#21 MSwiss

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:31 PM

I didn't get the motor in at the same angle as the last ones, so the lead wires are a touch short.

I'll get back on it in the morning.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#22 MSwiss

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 05:30 AM

4:24 in the morning. Awesome.

But as Neil Young espouses "Brush Dust Never Sleeps".

Time to go test the motors.

20180126_042444.jpg

 

Speaking of brush dust, in the course of breaking in the motors, Noose and Tony P, both regular Retro racers, mentioned they felt the brushes were as hard as ones in the 7R.

 

Adding that hard brush assessment info to the near identical appearance, the time frame Professor Motor came out with this motor(May 2017), let's just say, in my 20% personal opinion, I'm less than 100% confident, there won't be any issues with these motors.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#23 Steve Deiters

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:38 AM

Mike Swiss-Good looking power supply being used on this test.  I checked it out on the 'net.  Very reasonably priced.  Can you tell us more about it?  Good stuff?



#24 MSwiss

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:52 AM

So far, so good.
 
IIRC, give or take $5, I paid $50 for it, shipped.
 
I bought it primarily as a back up for my recreational / party, individual lane, power system, shown below.
 
It's similar, but not quite the same, as those.
 
IIRC, I paid about $75 each, for them, a few years back.
 
20180126_084610-1.jpg

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#25 Jason Holmes

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:00 AM

I see your Tire Gauge doesn't like the Cold either or you need air lol

 

jason

 

Good luck with the Motors







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