Alternative IRRA® motor submissions
#1
Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:40 PM
Too bad looking for a viable alternative doesn't include this potential candidate. Another Ohio racer and I bought a couple and ran some tests on it and related motors.
All I can say is it was very impressive. Fast with tons of brakes. A purpose-built motor for slot racing be used in a commercial series setting who would have thought it.
NSR 3030 King Evo balanced motor
- MSwiss and TG Racing like this
#2
Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:43 PM
- S.O. Watt and tonyp like this
#3
Posted 25 January 2018 - 05:48 PM
Too big.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#5
Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:03 PM
#6
Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:07 PM
Steve,
I'm guessing there are at least 300 Bartos chassis, alone, out there, with my angled bracket.
When you add the other chassis makers who use mine, along with all the R-Geos, and Dom Luongo's, it's just not practical.
- JerseyJohn likes this
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#7
Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:27 PM
Yes, they do fit in many open center frames that have a level motor or undershot gear alignment. Length in not a dimension I have seen specified - either stack or can length. A longer stack with the right wind might improve braking.
Not soldering the lead wires on the FK design brush tabs would help as well.
- Steve Deiters likes this
Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... Raceworld/Ramcat Raceways
racing around Chicago-land
Diode/Omni repair specialist
USRA 2023 member # 2322
IRRA,/Sano/R4 veteran, Flat track racer/MFTS
Host 2006 Formula 2000 & ISRA/USA Nats
Great Lakes Slot Car Club (1/32) member
65+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America
#8
Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:03 PM
Length in not a dimension I have seen specified - either stack or can length.
In the IRRA® motor rules the stack length of the JKHR is listed as .390" . The TSR and F7 are listed as .375".
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
#9
Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:30 PM
.390" and .375".
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#10
Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:48 PM
Post corrected.
Thank you.
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
#11
Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:15 PM
#12
Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:05 PM
- Steve Deiters and Bob Kurkowski like this
11/17/49-1/30/24
Requiescat in Pace
#13
Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:19 PM
How do propose fixing the problem of obsoleting a couple thousand chassis with angled brackets or bite bars close to the front of the legal length motors?
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#14
Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:25 PM
Kevin Myhaver
Bad Dog Racing
Color Me Gone
Romans 1:16 "... for I am not ashamed of the Gospel"
#15
Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:58 PM
How do propose fixing the problem of obsoleting a couple thousand chassis with angled brackets or bite bars close to the front of the legal length motors?
You buy/build new chassis.
Jeez, do I have to point everything out?
- Steve Deiters likes this
I am not a doctor, but I played one as a child with the girl next door.
#17
Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:12 PM
I think the manufacturer has to submit the motor.
- Steve Deiters likes this
#18
Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:46 PM
H&R is as much a 'manufacturer' as JK, TSR, or PM. They may all come from the same assembly line, just different contracts. Wonder which direction the brushes are on the others?
I think it might work to get a .440" stack arm (Grp15/Contender) into a FK180 and longer magnets.
We have 'developed' the frames to work with the short motors. The first kits and cars I ever saw would use a center weight to fill the void to the front of the motor. Can always rebuild the center rails at a minimum.
Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... Raceworld/Ramcat Raceways
racing around Chicago-land
Diode/Omni repair specialist
USRA 2023 member # 2322
IRRA,/Sano/R4 veteran, Flat track racer/MFTS
Host 2006 Formula 2000 & ISRA/USA Nats
Great Lakes Slot Car Club (1/32) member
65+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America
#19
Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:21 PM
NIH syndrome...
No NIH here.
Since I sell them I have tried them. With the longer overall length of the motor and an angled motor bracket the front of the motor hits the track. Just like you couldn't put a HR in a chassis designed for a PD with most of the angled brackets we used then.
#20
Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:34 AM
Steve,
I believe it is too long to be used with the angled brackets.
Since I haven't been racing Retro this is the first I've heard of an angled bracket. And since I've never seen one I'm not sure what the advantage would be to using one with the way I read the chassis rule. It's suppose to be a straight plane from bracket to front of chassis. Isn't this dropping the end of the motor below the straight plane?
3j. The bottom surface of the whole chassis (including the motor, but excluding the motor seal and guide flag) must be flat and straight in all directions, with no bowing or drooping of any parts below the plane defined by the front and rear clearance specifications. This will be checked by applying a straight edge to the underside of the car both across the frame and along the length of the frame.
There is also a little sketch in the rule book showing this but it wouldn't copy and paste.
What am I missing here?
Jim "Butch" Dunaway
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit.
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded.
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't.
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.
2000 Jackasses
#21
Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:41 AM
The advantage is you get a better gear mesh.
The motor shaft is aligned with the axle shaft.
IIRC, Mike Steube angled his motor up, using the WRP motor bracket, in his seminal chassis building video, he did with Keith Tanaka, in 2007
- Danny Zona likes this
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#22
Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:52 AM
PS-Bryan Warmack tested a high RPM, 1/32 motor, a few years ago at BP.
He said he has notes on it, that he'll check after the Checkpoint Cup, but it may of thrown a wire, but does know for sure it was nothing remarkable, as he didn't try a 2nd one.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#23
Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:36 AM
- MSwiss and Brian Cochrane like this
Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz
5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace
#24
Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:39 AM
The advantage is you get a better gear mesh.
The motor shaft is aligned with the axle shaft.
So what you are saying is the motor bracket raises the bracket end of the motor above the .050" minimum height?
Jim "Butch" Dunaway
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit.
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded.
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't.
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.
2000 Jackasses
#25
Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:40 AM
With mikes non hypoid bracket if you build the chassis with a jig motor the front edge of Motor will sit right at the bottom of chassis and the pinion side will slant up to meet bracket. As long as you use the same style jig Motor as you will be running in the car you will have no problems. Issues come when someone uses a Proslot with has the undercut in the endbell than they try to put an fk in the car.
Thanks Tony, now I understand how it works. It does raise the bracket end of the motor up.
Jim "Butch" Dunaway
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit.
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded.
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't.
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.
2000 Jackasses