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Pablo Retro® rules for 2019


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:40 PM

Exactly the same as Car Model 1969 Rules, no exceptions
 
CM Natl Championship 1969
 
Please pay particular attention to running gear motor rule #30:
 
Must be completely covered by body
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#2 Tom Katsanis

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 01:16 AM

Hey Pablo is this something that is actually happening is it 69 motors & parts only too it sounds like it will be pretty cool.
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#3 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:42 AM

Are these rules the standard to which Pablo will build retros to in 2019, or are they the base for a forthcoming proxy?


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#4 Pablo

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:13 AM

'Tis only in jest, and just a dream :D

 

"Long ago, far away, in a world where you can build a plumber's nightmare, use any motor you want, and make it as fast as you want" :dance3:


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#5 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:15 AM

If you want to build and run GENUINE retro cars, there is no substitute for GENUINE vintage rules.

 

If you build and run cars that conform to GENUINE vintage rules, but use all modern parts, what would you call that?

 

Suggestions, anyone?  :popcorm1:



#6 Pablo

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:21 AM

I'd call it legal. Example, if I use a brand new modern motor, and it is covered by the body, it's legal.

End of motor bickering :)


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#7 Bud Greene

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:27 AM

Hell yea Group 7 Can Am cars
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#8 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:45 AM

 

If you build and run cars that conform to GENUINE vintage rules, but use all modern parts, what would you call that?

 

Suggestions, anyone?  :popcorm1:

 

I'd simply call them New-Old Slot Cars.

 

I don't remember these '69 Car Model rules being used other than at the Car Model race series. IIRC, it was a Car Model race at Modelville Hobby when I met Pete von Ahrens.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#9 old & gray

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:46 AM

Having raced using these rules brings to mind some interesting differences between then and now.

 

Then - mount the body as low as it can be. Now – raise the rear to the rule’s limit for downforce.

 

Interesting rules

 

3(A)  the rear panel of the body will be a minimum of 5/8 inch. This will play havoc with the current aero dynamics, during races in 1969 there were often problems with the body “sucking” into the gears and tires.

 

7        Air Control Devices Use of tape is specifically prohibited. Time and technology march on 

 

14      Concours d’elegance …only the fastest half of the qualifiers … shall be judged for Concours. This was an interesting problem back then.

 

31     Tire Dressing May be applied sparingly to tires or track… and so it started.

 

    

.


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#10 team burrito

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:00 PM

i like it; count me in.


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#11 bradblohm

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:57 PM

This is similar to what we do racing vintage cars in Bordeaux in France, and Roncole Verdi in Italy, and several events in the UK.  Vintage parts, except for tires and guides/braid, and Italians are more strict about wheels, gears, and original guides!  Emphasis is also on cars and "concors d'elegance".  Yes, it has to run good, but it also has to look good!  You want to win the race, build a squashed door-stop, but you'll never win the event!  You want to win the "coloring competition", build a shelf queen, but you'll never win the event.  It is a combination of go AND show!  Over the years we've had our dramas with people who want to win TOO much, but almost always have a lot of fun!  Isn't that what it should be about?


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#12 John Streisguth

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 01:05 PM

IIRC, rule #14 was created because someone basically built a model with working doors, full interior etc then put a tiny motor in with FWD to get the car around the track.  


"Whatever..."

#13 old & gray

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 01:29 PM

IIRC, rule #14 was created because someone basically built a model with working doors, full interior etc then put a tiny motor in with FWD to get the car around the track.  

 

Bingo. A number of people made some rude comments when it couldn't make a lap in qualifying because it kept falling off in the bank. 


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#14 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 01:41 PM

 

I'd simply call them New-Old Slot Cars.

 

I was hoping someone would suggest something along the lines of "Vintage-style", but "New-Old Slot Cars" is definitely a start.  It's the IDEA that's important.



#15 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 04:50 PM

My alternate name was "The End of the Tunnel." :laugh2: I agree, it's the concept that's important. Whatever we call them is secondary.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#16 mppicione

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:31 AM

For what it's worth coming from a Retro racer who builds and races Retro cars, I LIKE THE IDEA !!!

What motor would be good to use?


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 10:48 AM

Again, keeping in mind my idea is only a dream, motor selection would depend on the track.

Just like the good old days when you could either build your own, or have a motor guy do it.

 

On shorter flatter tracks a tamer motor would probably be preferred over a hi speed banked track hi horsepower motor. It's a self-limiting kind of thing - overpower the car and lap times would suffer.

 

Personally, I think a fully plumbered Can Am anglewinder with a Group 20 arm in a C can motor would be a hoot.

Or a built Contender or a S16C.

 

Another reason for my thread is to show how straighforward the rules used to be when they didn't dictate what motors to be used.

None of this "only the ZZ8 version of the A17 motors can be used at major events before 1 January 2020" confusion.

 

When I titled it "Pablo®" rules, I figured y'all would get I was just funning. You can't copyright someone else's ruleset.

You have to at least change some of the verbage :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

The glue rule would have to be changed to make me happy - spray glue only :clapping:


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#18 dc-65x

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 12:29 PM

 

Personally, I think a fully plumbered Can Am anglewinder with a Group 20 arm in a C can motor would be a hoot.

Or a built Contender or a S16C.

 

It is a hoot Pablo, especially if those modern parts are fitted into a cleaned up 2-hole Mura C-can setup,

 

Every time I make the mistake of saying this I'm ridiculed or simply ignored. :unknw:


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#19 Jairus

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 03:35 PM

I like what Rick is suggesting.
Vintage cans, modern ceramic magnets and arms.  Gp7 pretty much.

And I would NEVER ignore you Rick.


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#20 dc-65x

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 04:23 PM

Here's an example I made about 10 years ago. You'd have to use what's available today of course:
 

I've been messing with the old pro cars for awhile now and they are a blast. The old S24 and D26/27 arms in a C-can motor are quite a thrill but really, well, touchy as far as reliability.

Our raceway owner Eddie and my buddy Rodney came up with what we call the "Eddie 20" a number of years ago. Here is an example:

eddie20parts1-1.jpg

So it's a modern arm, magnets, brushes and springs in a vintage Mura C-can setup:

eddie20parts4-1.jpg



eddie20parts3.jpg

I run this motor in my replica TonyP Starship:

eddie20parts11.jpg

It's not quite as fast as an S24 but darn close and you can hammer it and hammer it and it doesn't blow up. It just "takes a lick'n and keeps on tick'n" :laugh2: .

Just a thought...... :)


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#21 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 05:57 PM

Pablo,

 

I will step out on a limb and second Rick on this one; it is a hoot. :dance3:

 

In 1970 a fully plumbered Can Am anglewinder with a Group 20 arm in a C can motor was called a Group 27.  It was a Group 7 chassis with a Group 20 motor.  I had more fun building and racing my Group 27s than any other slot cars before or since.

 

And if I too am "making a mistake" by saying this, then "they" (Jairus excepted :laugh2: ) can ridicule and ignore me too.  :lol:


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:32 PM

Back in 1989, there was a raceway in North County, CA and we had a ball racing G20 wing cars every week.

There were always enough guys for a race. One young lady in particular I remember.

 

She was a competitive racer and had great cars. Once the owner started permitting glue, she said:

"If you allow this to continue, I won't come back". He did, and she didn't. Never saw her again.

 

Attendance fell to almost nothing and shortly thereafter the raceway was closed.


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#23 dc-65x

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 07:43 PM

The glue rule would have to be changed to make me happy - spray glue only :clapping:

 

:good:   Normal spray glued tracks and modern tires work fine.


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#24 Jairus

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:23 PM

This could be a fun gentlemen's challenge.
Building a 1969 era car with modern bits stuffed in an "A", "B" or "D" can motor.

Hardest parts are finding korrect wheels to complete the look.

So... do we go G.P. or NASCAR, or Can Am?


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#25 dc-65x

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:56 PM

C-can motors are easier to find parts for if you want to use vintage setups, especially the end bells.


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