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#1 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:30 AM

Back in the 60's complete cars were sold in kit forms that required assembly like the item below.

Why has this marketing concept been abandoned ?

 

The concept of building your own car offers the purchaser not only a lower cost for the car but also a insight into the cars mechanicals plus it introduces the buyer to the maintenance that is required to keep their car in a working condition which can go a long way in keeping people coming back to the tracks. These type of kits also offer the satisfaction of accomplishment that the plastic 'modeler' gets and this may even help to attract some modelers to the hobby.

 

If pouring brass bits out of a bag and tacking them together is good for scratch building it would seem that offering complete kit car build would also benefit the hobby.

 

Bob K.

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#2 Pappy

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:43 AM

Bob,

 

A bathroom sink faucet comes with installation instructions but most people will still hire someone else to put it in because they don't want to know how to do anything because if they did know something someone else might ask them to do it for them.

 

Case in point. My wife was helping her daughter do some drywall repair. She said to her son-in-law, come here I'll show you how to do this. His reply was "I don't want to know how to do that". That's when I would have picked up my tools and left.


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Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
It's the same when you are stupid.

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#3 Samiam

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:55 AM

Case in point. My wife was helping her daughter do some drywall repair. She said to her son-in-law, come here I'll show you how to do this. His reply was "I don't want to know how to do that". That's when I would have picked up my tools and left.

 

Pappy,

You caught a good one. Your wife's daughter....not so much.

 

Bob,

Not sure what's available now but Parma used to sell a car in kit form. The Sprint Plus car was also a kit. The miserable AMT car is a kit. 

 

All the so called "Ready to Run" cars I have seen aren't so "Ready". Most need to be tweaked and massaged in order to make them runable. Rather than "RTRs" I would just call them assembled.   


Sam Levitch
 
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#4 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:00 AM

Butch,

 

Have we degenerated to the point that helping a friend out is a burden ? Another place and time for that discussion.

 

 Your comment about your wife doing the job herself highlights why home building centers are mad houses on weekends because people are not afraid to do thing on their own and want to save money and have the satisfaction of accomplishment and potential slot racers are the same.

 

Bob K.


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#5 slotcarone

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:02 AM

Bob I guess you have never built a Retro chassis have you? If you think it is just pouring brass bits out of a bag and tacking them together I invite you to try it some day!! :)


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#6 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:04 AM

Sam,

 

I do not know so I will ask, Is a good detailed instruction sheet included with any current ready-to-run car ? Something along the lines of that Russkit blueprint complete with maintenance suggestions ? I wish I had a dime for every time I showed a new hobbyist how to preform something as simple as removing the body from their car.

 

Bob K.


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#7 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:11 AM

Mike,

 

You have made the same comment before and I showed you what I built so If you can't add any thing productive please don't comment. I'll can show you more if you want.

 

Bob K.



#8 NJ Racer

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:11 AM

Bob

 

This concept has not been abandoned. Many 1/32 scale companies including Slot.it, & NSR offer many of their rtr cars in kit form, including unpainted white body kits. 


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#9 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:21 AM

Ray,

 

Slot,It and NSR, never heard of them. LOL! Of course I have.

 

Do you know if the kits are popular ?

 

Bob K.



#10 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:36 AM

Bob I was with you up to the last line. You just could not resist taking a shot at scratch building kits. 

 

We got nothing to talk about.


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#11 Samiam

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:37 AM

Sam,

 

I do not know so I will ask, Is a good detailed instruction sheet included with any current ready-to-run car ? Something along the lines of that Russkit blueprint complete with maintenance suggestions ? I wish I had a dime for every time I showed a new hobbyist how to preform something as simple as removing the body from their car.

Bob,

 

  Since I haven't bought a RTR car in 45 years or so, I couldn't tell you what's included. But judging from the simple things I have to show newbies how to do.....NO, I don't think anything is included in the box. If I owned a raceway I would include a basic "How To" manual with every starter kit. I also wouldn't let a newb leave the sales counter without a proper allen tool, tire conditioner and oil. And a good shop rag for cleaning the tires.  


Sam Levitch
 
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#12 Roy Lievanos

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:52 AM

I like the concept, but I think it the modern age we live in that would keep new people from building kits. For a few dollars more they can buy a RTR car.
In our fast paced enviroment there are too many gadgets that have made us lazy.
Alexis, turn off the light (lamp 3 feet away) Alexis, turn on the TV etc.
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#13 elvis44102

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:57 AM

Building a car from scratch requires soldering skills for one..i learned when i was 11...i have seen some chassis shown online and while im glad everybody is encouraging I always look at the soldering and wonder


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#14 John Streisguth

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:58 AM

Man and son wander into a store that has cars whizzing around a track.  They think it looks like it could be fun.  They rent a car, see it's lacking in performance.  Ask the store owner about it, who explains the rental cars are made to take abuse but they dont handle as well as the cars people buy and race.  They ask whats available they could buy and use right now.  

 

IMO, that explains a lot of why RTRs are what is sold.  And these days, the availability of good parts is such that if they want to build a car, the store owner can easily sell them what's needed. It also explains why raceways sell so many RTRs but the people who buy them come a few times and then disappear


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#15 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:13 AM

Gents,

 

The original concept is very easy to shoot holes in because yes, there are a lot of lazy-unmotivated people out in the world today who can't, won't, and don't do anything to even help themselves in their daily lives but we have to look past those individuals and focus on the guy who walked into a raceway out of curiosity and what options might get him involved in slots.

 

I believe the blueprint-maintenance sheet is a must have for both the RTR or a kit.

 

Bob K.


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#16 NJ Racer

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:45 AM

Kits  are in demand in the 1/32 scale arena for those club racers and collectors that prefer to assemble and personalize the body. Typically the savings are a minimum of $10.00 as compared to the rtr version. 

 

On the other hand I agree the concept of a complete 1/24 scale JK, or Parma simple spec kit car version of their rtr flexi  box cars would introduce the beginner as a start to gain an understanding of the fundamentals of assembly, set-up, and paint.  Obviously all the required  parts to build a complete car are available to purchase from the  retail raceway. 

 

In the Retro scene evidently the popularity over time of chassis kits have gained significant appeal to both  the beginner and experienced. IMO i don't see the appeal of a bundled total  Retro kit because of all the moving parts and competitive nature aligned with Retro racing.  

 

Just my thinking Bob.


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#17 Pappy

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:55 AM

Do you know if the kits are popular ?

 

 

No, they are not


Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
It's the same when you are stupid.

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#18 jimht

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 11:54 AM

My memory fails here. What was the price differential between kits and RTRs in the Sixties?

 

I agree that it is beneficial for the customer to assemble their own car.

If they know how it goes together they are more able to maintain and repair it.

Parents would usually approve of kids buying kits to assemble.
All Raceways nowadays have tables and behind the counter aid for those wanting to assemble it right away.

 

Parma still offers the 1/24 Flexi-Kar - Unassembled Kit (No Motor) 426CKNM, $39.99  and the Turbo Flex Kit 1/8 CH131  $34.00

The Raceway could supply a motor with pinion, lead wires and maybe a body for a $20-$30 uptick, but is the final price too much for such outdated product?

 

I could easily disassemble a JK RTR car and package it with an instruction sheet, but the tools needed, even just the allen wrenches, will make the kit cost more than the RTR.

 

The solution is for Tim to do that, but it would have to be 5-10% lower retail than the RTR to be appealing.

 

Is that even feasible?

 

 

 


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#19 Steve Deiters

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:06 PM

Let's be honest.  The kits from the 60's were overly complicated and frankly not very good.  How we all survived them and maintained interest surprises me to this day.  The quality of the product has improved and a much better slot car is much simpler.

 

There are two basic skills that a slot racer needs to get a car on the track and at least running aside from basic tool skills-screwdriver, allen wrench etc.. 

 

#1. The ability to solder as well as understanding what it can and cannot do.

 

#2. Setting a gear mesh correctly either inline or anglewinder.

 

Both of these skills came to all of us in time, but it took time. Some longer than others.  Time that in this day and age, whether we like it or not, is short in supply and competed for from far more directions than when we were young.  If a slot car kit that eliminated the need for these skill sets would be a step in the right direction for more racers and most importantly sustaining interest.  The solder and gear set up ability can come later as interest expands and skill sets develop.

 

I think a flexi-style kit car that is "preassembled" to a degree so to speak that requires only the installation of the rear wheels (proper spacing), set screw front solid axle (proper spacing again), and installation of the body (prepunched for pin or body clip holes) and possibly the guide flag, with the caveat that the proper shims are available for correct guide depth-local track owners may want to do this set-up ahead of time.  In the long run that will be better for you and your new racer. "One size" does not fit all as the saying goes especially with guide depths.

 

Much simpilier than we had for sure , but does it have to be complicated?  Does it have to be some type of rite of passage?  I would hope not.

 

We are many generations of slot car technology removed from the overly complex kits of the '60's.  We just need to look at slot car kits in a different way for 21st century acceptance and success.



#20 Pappy

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:13 PM

Butch,

 

Have we degenerated to the point that helping a friend out is a burden ? 

No, but we have degenerated to the point that people expect you to do everything for them.

 

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

 

Too many people can't be bothered to learn how to fish.

 

To answer your question in your initial post, if there was a market for kit cars that you had to assemble then someone would fill it.


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Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
It's the same when you are stupid.

NF-UE

#21 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:14 PM

Jim,

 

Good points. May I ask, is there easy to follow instructions included in any kits you know of ?

 

Steve,

 

JK offer a bolt in motor-chassis so no need to be a solder guru for assembly and gear adjustment tutoring and knowledge is easily explained when a simple piece of paper between the pinion and the spur is all that's needed to establish a gear mesh. Again simple instructions and photos go a long way.

 

Bob K.



#22 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:24 PM

Butch,

 

Love the positive attitude but I generally agree with most of what you said.

 

Please keep in mind that I'm presenting the 'instruction sheet' as much as the 'kit' concept. Remember, just because something has not been used or tried for a while doesn't mean it cannot be returned to fruition.

 

Bob K.



#23 blue&orange

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:28 PM

Please see the thread on this forum (I don't know how to link) about the new AWRA Womp kits now being offered by Professor Motor.  Or check PM -- the kits are listed.


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#24 team burrito

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:57 PM

i did a scratch-building class with my cut-off saw, torch & tile and built a chassis in three hours on the spot. i don't think anything happened after that. either people get it or they don't; 9 times out of 10 they don't.


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#25 Mark Wampler

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:42 PM

Back in the 60's complete cars were sold in kit forms that required assembly

 

 

 

 

 

 

The key part of your statement is the "60's".   An era that I doubt we'll ever see again.  Slot cars originally followed upon the heels of hard plastic model car kits that kids enjoyed assembling.  Hours and hours of meticulous work to complete a car.  That's simply not a happening cultural element these days.  Far more racers than those who tinker.


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#26 NJ Racer

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 02:11 PM

Mfg suggested retail was $7.00 according to the coding on the side of the box.

 

 

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#27 jimht

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 02:17 PM

My opinion: Kits aren't/shouldn't be aimed at adults.

 

You can go into umpteen reasons why, but essentially it comes down to: why bother, they're looking for either RTR or "I want to make it THIS way".

 

Kids have no preconceived notions, they're an easy sell.

 

Any instructions should follow the example of the Tamiya multipage booklets that helped create the Mini4wd boom.10179164z5.jpg

 

 


Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#28 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 03:09 PM

Food for thought, The hobby of plastic and wood model building has been around forever and it still draws customers based off of the fact that 'some assembly is required' so the notion that everybody is lazy is a fallacy.

 

Why are bodies offered in clear and how many of you paint your own bodies ? I paint my own and I hate it but I do so because I'm not going to pay someone else to do it so its another marketing option I have and I like it.  Nothing wrong with assembling a kit ? Some dig it, some won't.

 

Bob K.



#29 slotcarone

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 05:21 PM

Mike,

 

You have made the same comment before and I showed you what I built so If you can't add any thing productive please don't comment. I'll can show you more if you want.

 

Bob K.

Maybe I misunderstood the gist of your sentence Bob but the first part could be taken as derogatory. Anyway unfortunately todays society wants instant gratification and does not want to put something together in order to enjoy it. The JK RTR cars are pretty good out of the package. :)


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#30 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:17 PM

Mike,

 

My comment was meant to be derogatory. You called me out before how I never built a retro car and I in fact showed you a retro car that I built so please drop your all mighty scratch builder nonsense.

 

Jim HT,

 

 Have to differ on the kit target, I would say adults buy the majority of plastic model kits so why would a slot car kit be different ? Sounds like a win-win for all ages.

 

Guess its time to put this one to rest because it seems like everybody around here has given up on mankind and views using your brains and your hands as just to much to ask of society.

 

You reap what you sow....Bob K.



#31 MSwiss

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:32 PM

Bob,

IMO, you posted a great topic here.

 

I would of loved to of posted, with my take, but  5 hours of party, and commentating approx. 125+, 5 laps races, got in the way.

 

Regardless, it's a shame you had start it off, on a bad foot, with your confrontational, repetitive;

"If pouring brass bits out of a bag and tacking them together is good for scratch building ..."

 

If "tacking them together" was all that had to be done, everyone would do it , and save themselves about $80 a chassis.

 

Instead, Bartos is working on about chassis #955, since he got involved in Retro.

 

Here's a JKD311 kit, Bud poured the brass bits out of the bag, and tacked together.

 

27356017_10208403564805645_8691142706075


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#32 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 07:45 PM

Mike,

 

Whats your point?  That's exactly what Bud did, he poured brass bits from a bag and tacked them together.

 

Got news for you, it doesn't take super natural powers to soldier some wire and brass together.

 

Did this quote ruffle your feathers also, "Very nice kit Dom, built one for a customer and it went from in the bag to in the tumbler in a hour !" Theres that 'bag' word in there that seems to trigger some of you.

 

Got anything constructive to add to the topic?

 

Bob K.



#33 Dominator

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:27 PM

Bob, the parts have to come in some kind of container. Some kits are easier to build than others. Knowing how to properly solder a chassis together v.s. simply soldering it together are two different things. I have had many discussions with racers of all levels at races about how and why I build the way I do.

3 weeks ago I spoke with a couple of racers as to why their chassis was good in right hand turns v.s. left hand turns. This racer checked tires, guide spacing, tire spacing, chassis flatness, etc... When this happens with retro chassis it's usually an indicator the rails need to be replaced as there is likely tension between the solder joints/rails. This was not something either of them had thought of to consider.

Another thing some builders need to be aware of is the straighteness of wire. Some wire is not flat or straight even when dealing with 3-6" long pieces. This is more typical when dealing with wire .055 and smaller. If the wire is not flat or is pushed down during soldering it will add tension to the chassis also.

My point is it still takes some know how to build whether it's a scratchbuilt, retro kit, or stamped steel chassis.


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#34 MSwiss

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:41 PM

Bob,
There is no less building in that example I showed of Bud's, as there was in some of those examples, you showed from that Michigan builder, a few months back, that you championed.

You just have a bad attitude about Retro kits because you disagree with the concept.

You even went as far as trying to start some sort of alternative Retro racing, that had the crickets chirping on OWH, when you presented it.

Again slot car kits was a great subject.

I'll comment after Super Bowl.

It's a shame you can't post without your "I don't like the direction Retro went" agenda.

It must kill you when you see 3 mains in the Retro classes, like they had at MMW, this past Saturday, at the Penn-Ohio race.

Mike Swiss
 
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#35 jimht

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:43 PM

Now, now Bob, don't quibble about "what's a kit or not?".

 

Most everyone that's been around awhile has done it both the easy way and the hard way...whether it's assembling chunks of K&S brass or slicing up trowels or using some of the nice parts available today.

 

It's hand assembly that takes serious skills to make a nice looking AND good working final product.

 

Both the pieces and the assembler can be judged on a sliding scale of ease and ability, but that's quibbling. Assembling a Retro chassis kit cannot be compared to a 2 or 3 piece Flexi.

 

My comment about adults buying kits is based on my considerable experience trying to sell this stuff.

 

Instant gratification is expensive but adults tend to afford what they want.

 

Kids and adults both should both buy kits, but I think the kit would be better for kids...the experience of assembling it would be more valuable to them.

Adults tend to use their greater buying power to get what they want immediately...which is to run their car on the track.


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#36 Samiam

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:43 PM

I have some nice chassis parts for scratch building. They are from Cobra, Ferret, Phaze-III, Dynamic, Parma and Champion. Drop arms, motor brackets, bat pans, nose pieces, guide tongues, and pre-cut axle tubes. 40-50 years old. All I have to do is add s-o-l-d-e-r.  


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#37 Half Fast

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:06 PM

Just pour them out and tack them together Sam, it takes no skill, or so we are told.

 

Cheers


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#38 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:27 PM

Sam, you got the brass parts. If you have a chassis jig, let's see a chassis. :)


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Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#39 Samiam

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:43 PM

I'll be tacking together a "Vintage Style" stock car Bill. Parma Cyclone body. Mura 2-Hole Green can stuffed with a H-20 arm. Just need some fresh orange rubber to complete the "Kit". 


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Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#40 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 11:12 PM

Any orange rubber I have is hard as a rock!   At one time, Alpha & Hershman both had orange donuts but I don't know if they still do. Maybe some of the L,I. locals will have some.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#41 Phil Hackett

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 11:59 PM

When I want plants for my landscaping I buy them at the local nursery. Since I don't grow the things from seeds I guess I'm voting for the RTR... err,,, RTP....


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#42 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:58 AM

Sorry it took me so long to get back...I was at a birthday party.

 

Some of you seemed to have missed the part about constructive input to the original topic.

 

Mike,

 

I'm having a very hard time deciphering what you are talking about, you sound like nothing more then a raceway owner who had coffee dribbled on his track [Yeah Mike, I heard about that. ] :crazy:

 

With regards your continual attacks related to retro, I do not want anything to do with retro and I have nothing to do with retro, I along with many others quit retro a long time ago so stop bringing up all of your whimsical accusations and situations such as " I don't like the direction retro went" and even your "3 mains at Mark's in retro" comment. These comments along with your first off topic attack in post #31 were not warranted and offer no merit. News flash Mike, go back and read the original post and you will see that it has nothing to do with retro racing...period, so get over it.

 

As for a "alternative retro that had the crickets chirping on OWH",  I'm not really sure what your talking about and I doubt you do either but please explain to me if this is what your alluring to. I helped to organize some Thingie races and what is wrong with a guy putting out a idea and then helping at the races like I did with Thingies up in the northeast Ohio area. My work brought people to the tracks and may I add that the races were well attended and everyone had a blast. Perhaps this isn't what you are referring to but whatever I did it always had the best interest of the hobby and my local raceways in mind so if that offends you....oh well.

 

My opinion of what it takes to put a slot car together are my opinions plain and simple and they are every bit as valid as everyone else's on this forum so again, go back and read the topic of the original post and participate accordingly but please stop trying to spin everything that doesn't meet your approval into a retro pep rally.

 

Jim HT

 

My questions asked to you have been based on the 'lazy' comments some to have about kids and society as a whole. While I agree with some of it I also know that there is huge participation at NOPI type events by young guys and girls building some very detailed and complex autos so that tells me that the desire and the funds to assemble something is still prevalent.

 

Bob K.



#43 Bernard Powell

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:55 AM

When I first started reading this I thought it was a great subject on the viability of Kit assembly for new racer like it was back in the sixties!!
It is a very good subject, the problem is people haven't really changed, it is just the mindset!(think about it I'll wait). Like you say today everyone wants instant gratification! And that is a fact, but I believe if people would get together meaning track owners and manufacturers they could come up with something that would be appealing to many.
understand I'm not disagreeing with anyone in this, this is just my opinion and point of view.
Remember the old saying, A House Divided will fail!!

#44 MSwiss

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:59 AM

Bob,
You build your own track and witness how much damage a few dribbles of liquid can do, and the amount of time it takes to fix it, and let's see how you react when someone stands over your track, spilling coffee, and then when you point it out to him, he looks at you, and denies it's happening.

Yes, you don't Retro race anymore, but you still marginalize, the way some Retro chassis are built, years later, in almost every thread you start.

I'm thrilled you don't Retro race, anymore.

Rob V and yourself were such a miserable presence at R4/2, you made a great race, less great.

It was 60 racers having a good time.....and Rob and Bob.

You 2 spent the whole weekend complaining about anything and everything.

Paraphrasing, it was 8 years ago. "Noose won't pass my car in tech. It's close to being legal. What a bunch of BS".

I dreaded racing with you in the Can-Am final.

I wound up being pleasantly surprised, because for 24 minutes, you finally shut your mouth, and raced.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#45 Racer36

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:04 AM

Close to being legal......


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#46 Robert BG

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:08 AM

I think kids like kits to build and customize things and parents like them because they build confidence.Now the idea I've always had rolling around was for a track to have a sample rtr in the case along with a build your own option.You could list the available upgrades or "hop up parts" in both kits and allow the customer the ability to buy as few or as many options to the kit as they like.Then you could offer a seminar/in store help like they do at home depot etc on assembly and tuning to both the rtr and self builder.Now the self build option customers could save some money buy buying upgrades right out of the box instead of buying stuff 3 times and in the end you'll have a happier race ready customer ;-)


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#47 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:13 AM

Mike,

 

That's it ? Out right lies. Pathetic just pathetic.

 

Bob K.



#48 Robert BG

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:22 AM

Why not.............................................Talk about the topic instead of total BS.Seriously we're adult men playing with toy cars,there is no need to act like children too.

No wonder this hobby is circling the drain.Seriously its almost to the point where we're going to have to tell the last one to leave not to forget and flush and turn off the lights.


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#49 MSwiss

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 12:07 PM

I think there is a small market for kits.

I get periodic requests for them.

"Is there something my son can build?"

They are not looking for a kit to save money.

They are looking for one, for the building experience.

I offer to disassemble the car, N/C, and give them back the parts, or point out they can always disassemble the car themselves, anytime, and reassemble it.

But when I point out everything has to be just right, or they'll blow off a $4 spur, in a few seconds, they decline to take me up on my offer.


To offer a kit these days, these is a few problems.

To come up with a detailed instruction sheet, doesn't make a lot of economic, sense with the tiny market for 1/24 commercial cars.

Legend has it there was 200 raceways in an hour radius of Downtown Chicago, back in the era when the Russkit kit, shown, was in it's heyday.

Quizzing people, my age, that come in, on where they raced as a kid, I have zero doubt in my mind, there was at least 100.

Now, if I am correct, there is 3.

Also, the style of car, in this day and age, doesn't lend itself, so much, to be sold as a kit.

A vacuformed body?

Unpinned, chances are a newbie will not pin it properly.

Not the end of the world, but probably something I'll have to fix for them.

Prepinned, clipping it on, meh/not much of a building experience.

Also, you have the lead wires soldered on both ends.

No way to do that ahead of time, and still feed them through the lead wire holder on the chassis.

You could go clipless, in front, and then you have a car that the braid falls out, frequently.

The ideal kit would have a snap together, hardbody, so there would be more parts to put together.

Then the issue would be the performance.

Kids, and adults, like their intoduction to slot racing, with easy to drive, GTP cars.

Moving beyond the performance issue, it's still a shame AMT chose a non-slot racer to design the cars they put on the market.

If they were halfway decent, they could of really helped.

But anybody that has ever put one on my tracks, is hugely disappointed, tries to run the car, for 4 or 5 laps, and gives up.

It's a shame it isn't 1967, and there is a market for anything slot car related.

If it was, you would have many cars, with personality.

You would have accurate Lightning McQueen cars, identified as such.

You would have every Fast & Furious car.

But even looking back at that era, cars like the Manta Ray, Stinger, Little Red Wagon, La Cucaracha, etc., were RTR's.

Maybe there were kits of some of the above, But I associate with them as RTR's.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#50 Foamy

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 12:42 PM

My opinion: Kits aren't/shouldn't be aimed at adults.

 

You can go into umpteen reasons why, but essentially it comes down to: why bother, they're looking for either RTR or "I want to make it THIS way".

 

Kids have no preconceived notions, they're an easy sell.

 

Any instructions should follow the example of the Tamiya multipage booklets that helped create the Mini4wd boom.10179164z5.jpg

The Super 2 shown here is the best sidewinder chassis. The much awaited FM-A STILL has the same gearbox problems as the AR/ARFM it replaces.

 

 

 

 

foamy-super-II.jpg


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