Jump to content




Photo

Another brushless thread...


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#26 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,460 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:09 AM

I have no problem with brushless motors. I flew F5B and F5D for many years. I have several 200 mph brushless airplanes and have a good bit of experience with their powersystems.

Brushless motors and ESC have their place. A very quick way to ruin slot racing would be to introduce brushless and associated computer controllers.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Regan #40 (1911 - 2004)

David Parrotta




#27 Robert BG

Robert BG

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Joined: 12-May 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern NJ and Bulgaria

Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:19 AM

A typical slotcar motor is soldered in. Brushless motor cans are typically aluminum.

I've got quite a few aluminum chassis that are plated and solder just fine;-)

 

Seriously though outside of drag racing I just cant see them taking over anytime soon.Brush less took over rc because of efficiency more than anything else. Our little brushed motors are far from efficient but thankfully they dont need to be because we dont carry batteries around.

 

The other thing that keeps us running brushed motors is the low CG.I might be wrong but I cant see a brushless motor ever being able to be cut down to the height of a C/D can motor,let alone a strap can setup.For instance a current Koford 27 Lite is roughly a half inch tall and some of my older setups the arm is the tallest part,the straps are barely over a 1/4 inch.

I know they make some small brushless stuff but you'd have to get some serious power out of it and even then the electronics are still a issue.They wont be as small in order to be able to handle the current.

 

Mike (or anyone)what sort of RPM's will a g-12 and a G 27 run these days?All I know is its a lot.

 

As for the $300 motor,believe me they can be built for less,you can easily get 90% of the performance for 50% or less of the cost.I personally build all my motors and it really doesnt cost that much although again you can also spend a fortune too if you want.But for me if I can make a main and run ok against the big dogs with my own builds to me that is a win ;-)

 

Also there's no need for a com lathe,it's so cheap to send them off it is hardly worth it.I can even get them done at my local track but its over a hour away so i tend to send them off.

 

It's cool to see someone build one but as someone who has looked into it,I just dont see it getting past drag cars anytime soon.I did figure out a way to make it work with a normal controller though but it wasnt the simplest thing and for roundy rounds just wasnt worth going further.

 

What gearing have you tried?I personally would load it up as high as it'll go until it slows.Chances are you still have some speed left on the table ;-)


  • Samiam likes this
Robert Fothergill

#28 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:20 AM

Dave,
You are missing the entire point of this thread. But I'll say this then, Show me a top(road) racer even contemplating using a brushless motor. Besides, who's talking about(road) racing? Calm down. Nobody is taking your brushes away. Besides, if we didn't have brushes, we wouldn't have anything to flame on about, here and all over the Interweb. 
 
This is what is known as a "Proof of concept" . And from what I have found elsewhere on the WWW, this is not the first foray into brushless slot cars. However, everything I've seen is a drag car. Looks like Monty knew what he was talking about.


Hey if you don’t mind, can you post any other info you’ve found on this? If you don’t want to post it, you can message me. I’d be interested in what others have done. Ideas are always nice. I appreciate the overall appreciative-ness that’s going on in this thread. I’m glad to see that most people on here are understanding that I’m just trying stuff out.



Btw....I’m not trying to turn the slot car world on it’s head by introducing this. Just a normal guy tinkering in his shop, playing with new toys. No need for bashing or negative attitude from anyone. We are all trying to arrive at the same result.....just trying to have some fun in our lives......some are just a little more serious about things than other....but do keep in mind, we are grown men.....playing with toys. :)

TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#29 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,026 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:46 AM

A typical slotcar motor is soldered in. Brushless motor cans are typically aluminum.


Define "typical" ?? try soldering in an NSR/Slot it motor into a 1/32 car you'd end up with a molten mess :laugh2:

Alot of "typical" slot cars that use FK motors are bolted in, as in Plafit and other high end brass/carbon European 1/24 cars..

As for crying about brushless being the death knell for slot cars or ruining them? Can see it now, #brushedmotorsmatter ..
  • mike1972chev and KFXGuy like this

#30 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:05 PM

I've got quite a few aluminum chassis that are plated and solder just fine;-)
 
Seriously though outside of drag racing I just cant see them taking over anytime soon.Brush less took over rc because of efficiency more than anything else. Our little brushed motors are far from efficient but thankfully they dont need to be because we dont carry batteries around.
 
The other thing that keeps us running brushed motors is the low CG.I might be wrong but I cant see a brushless motor ever being able to be cut down to the height of a C/D can motor,let alone a strap can setup.For instance a current Koford 27 Lite is roughly a half inch tall and some of my older setups the arm is the tallest part,the straps are barely over a 1/4 inch.
I know they make some small brushless stuff but you'd have to get some serious power out of it and even then the electronics are still a issue.They wont be as small in order to be able to handle the current.
 
Mike (or anyone)what sort of RPM's will a g-12 and a G 27 run these days?All I know is its a lot.
 
As for the $300 motor,believe me they can be built for less,you can easily get 90% of the performance for 50% or less of the cost.I personally build all my motors and it really doesnt cost that much although again you can also spend a fortune too if you want.But for me if I can make a main and run ok against the big dogs with my own builds to me that is a win ;-)
 
Also there's no need for a com lathe,it's so cheap to send them off it is hardly worth it.I can even get them done at my local track but its over a hour away so i tend to send them off.
 
It's cool to see someone build one but as someone who has looked into it,I just dont see it getting past drag cars anytime soon.I did figure out a way to make it work with a normal controller though but it wasnt the simplest thing and for roundy rounds just wasnt worth going further.
 
What gearing have you tried?I personally would load it up as high as it'll go until it slows.Chances are you still have some speed left on the table ;-)


I’m still experimenting with gearing. I started with a 14/50 with a 1 3/16 tall tire. I was able to get a mid to low 6 out of it but I had to back down the punch or it would spin the whole track. Then my 60ft was a dismal .245ish. So I threw on a 52t spur and it went .565 with the punch turned down. It lost mph for some reason tho. I’m gonna throw more traction at it and mess with the hearing more on Thursday night to see how far I can take it. Funny thing is I told myself if I could get in the .5’s I’d be happy but now I know it’s got more left in it, I think a .4xx is doable. Which should be pretty impressive.


(Off topic but I don’t want to start another thread) I’m interested in building a budget drag motor or buying one but I don’t even know where to begin. If anyone would graciously guide me in the right direction, I’d appreciate it. Message me is fine if you don’t want to clutter this thread. I’m exploring this option because equipping all my cars with brushless just isn’t what I’m going to do right now.
  • hiline2 and Samiam like this

TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#31 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,460 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:36 PM

Reread my post.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Regan #40 (1911 - 2004)

David Parrotta

#32 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,460 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:38 PM

By controllers I ment TX and RX.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Regan #40 (1911 - 2004)

David Parrotta

#33 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,257 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:52 PM

No worries, especially here at Slotblog aka Retro slot car road course do it the old way heaven.

 

Commercial 1/24 scale 8 lane slot car track racing is so small as to be statistically insignificant.

 

Anyone involved would be so little affected by something new that they wouldn't even notice.

 

:) 


  • Mattb likes this

Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#34 Robert BG

Robert BG

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Joined: 12-May 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern NJ and Bulgaria

Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:45 AM

What type of motor would you be looking to build?If you're looking to build a cobalt open bullet on the cheap.Most top racers sell off stuff that isnt the top 2% and its a great way to get arms for a play/drag car.


Robert Fothergill

#35 Alchemist

Alchemist

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,477 posts
  • Joined: 11-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern CA

Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:33 PM

Hi Travis,

 

"Btw....I’m not trying to turn the slot car world on it’s head by introducing this. Just a normal guy tinkering in his shop, playing with new toys. "

 

For me, being creative is how we have acquired many of the amenities in life we take for granted.

 

If not for creativity, we wouldn't be able to converse here - right now, from all parts of the world, via the internet.

 

So please, Travis, continue to share your "findings" because I am interested for my own use.

 

I applaud and appreciate your efforts and thank you for sharing your findings.

 

It also makes for interesting discussion!

 

Ernie


  • Samiam likes this
Ernie Layacan

#36 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:17 AM

What type of motor would you be looking to build?If you're looking to build a cobalt open bullet on the cheap.Most top racers sell off stuff that isnt the top 2% and its a great way to get arms for a play/drag car.


Honestly I don’t even know. The only brushed motor I have right now is a Parma super 16d $15 motor. I wouldn’t mind trying a different arm but I don’t know where to begin. I did advance the timing as much as I could and it picked up 2mph and .02

I feel like I’d be wasting money on this motor. I don’t even know what’s a good motor to start with.

TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#37 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:22 AM

Hi Travis,
 
"Btw....I’m not trying to turn the slot car world on it’s head by introducing this. Just a normal guy tinkering in his shop, playing with new toys. "
 
For me, being creative is how we have acquired many of the amenities in life we take for granted.
 
If not for creativity, we wouldn't be able to converse here - right now, from all parts of the world, via the internet.
 
So please, Travis, continue to share your "findings" because I am interested for my own use.
 
I applaud and appreciate your efforts and thank you for sharing your findings.
 
It also makes for interesting discussion!
 
Ernie



Well currently I’m exploring my options. I’m trying to figure out the cheapest way I can equip a car with brushless. I’m trying to do it without the additional converter I have to get to convert air signal to surface signal. It’s looking like my transmitter is candle of running an air based (and what I mean by that is airplane, helicopter etc) esc by just tweaking one setting. If that’s so I’ll shed a couple grams weight and not have to spend $25 per adapter. It’s looking like I can get a motor and esc for under $35-$40

TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#38 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,026 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:37 PM

Couldn't you just use a land based transmitter matched up to the ESC/transmitter/motor? Wouldn't that do away with that extra doohicki? :laugh2:

#39 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:27 AM

Ok. I just figured something out. Get to that in a minute...... But to answer the question about a land based esc, I have not found one small enough and lite enough that will run on track voltage. The track I run at is 16v. the esc's that are currently available that are small (for land) only support up to 12.8V so the one I tried first wont even arm. Esc's that support this kind of voltage are are mainly air escs         The problem with that is you have to hold reverse on the transmitter while you apply power. Adding a pistix adapter solves this by automatically doing it for you. Now what I figured out (with help from the boat forum I belong to) is I can eliminate the pistix (and a $25 cost) by setting the sub trim all the way to reverse and adding little bit of reverse trim. The esc now arms correctly and I get full throttle. I also chopped off a whopping (lol) 1.5g of weight. My next thing is to try a lower amperage controller that will be cheaper and lighter. Right now the controller I'm using is a 35 amp. I'm not sure what kind of amps this setup pulls? Anyone have an idea how many amps a typical drag setup pulls with a brushed motor? At least that can get me in the ball park.


TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#40 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,460 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:37 AM

take the heat shrink and heat sink off the ESC and wrap it with kapton tape
  • KFXGuy likes this
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Regan #40 (1911 - 2004)

David Parrotta

#41 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:04 AM

take the heat shrink and heat sink off the ESC and wrap it with kapton tape


Why? And theres no heat sink.


I just looked at what that tape was. Pretty neat. Seems to be the same stuff I use for powder coating masking tape but thinner. I guess you're thinking it would be lighter? Probably is but honestly at this point I might be 10g heavier but the weight is welcomed to keep the car on the track. Thanks for turning me on to this tape, I can think of some other uses.


TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#42 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:32 AM

Well I went to the track last night. I picked up my .700 rear tires, I didnt run the car however. I had some stuff to attend to at home so I didnt bring my stuff with me. One definite negative of this Brushless setup is you cant run the car without a transmitter. I brought the car with me to see if the tires fit and after fitting them I felt compelled to make a couple passes. I couldnt because I left my tx at home. Bummer. It dont matter tho, I have a Cardin wing Im adding to the car anyways and I didnt wanna run it again without it.


I asked the track owner about a circle track car and he handed me one to mess with but it needed a rebuild (was missing lots of parts too) and I didnt feel like messing with it so I left it there. Im gonna see if I can get a nicer car from him but he was busy last night so we didnt get much conversation in about that. Stay tuned, Im interested to see how this will fair, the circle track is 12v so its going to be much more manageable to drive.

TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#43 KFXGuy

KFXGuy

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:BATON ROUGE

Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:02 PM

Well my track owner posted this to Facebook. Omg the responses have been tremendous. 99% of the people are digging it and amazed it works. Seems like a few are wanting to try it for themselves. I didn’t think there would be this much interest in this. I’m pretty excited!

TRAVIS THIBODEAUX


#44 Alchemist

Alchemist

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,477 posts
  • Joined: 11-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern CA

Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:32 PM

Hi Travis,

 

 

 

I didn’t think there would be this much interest in this. I’m pretty excited! 

 

That is exciting and I'm excited for you.

 

Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

Ernie


Ernie Layacan





Electric Dreams Online Shop