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Group F body set-up tips


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#1 DaveW

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:07 PM

I am looking for some input. I have been racing Group F on a older king, I am hoping that some of the experienced (Hot shoes) racers might chime in on the latest hot body/wing setup for these cars, any setup tips are welcome. Thanks

 

​I attempted to post of picture of my cars, but it says the file is to big.


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#2 Robert BG

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:29 PM

What chassis and how long?

 

Hopefully someone can help resize the file because seeing what you've got would help.


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#3 DaveW

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:55 PM

I have searched on my current computer for a picture program to reduce the file size, I cannot find one. It has been years since I had to edit a photo to reduce the file size to be able to post it.

 

My 4 modern wing chassis range from 4.400 - 4.670. The car I have been racing lately is 4.400 with a ribbed Viper body. I have been told I can do better for both of them.


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#4 zipper

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:07 PM

IrfanView is free and simple picture editor to make quick picture size edits - and lots of other actions, too.


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#5 Robert BG

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:50 PM

I dont run ribbed on bodies much these days.Even on my 27's.I find that if its collapsing a brace from the rear axle brace to the back of the body does the trick.On a F though a ribbed body is a bit much unless you're expecting a massive crashfest :D

 

Have you winged a body before?If not there's a link to Larry Blanton's video/guide that is very helpful.

 

I dont have anything that long so I'm not going to be much help on dimensions.but if it was me I'd start with either a Red Fox Foxtail or Tock,and a  Z-28 in .005 thick and try and get some Redox wings in 005 If he has 004's I'd try them too otherwise Camen has some that thin.

 

Length and height for a 4.6 I'd probably go for around 135mm long and 32 mm high.......But this is just a guess so ask around/experiment.

 

Now where it gets tricky is what is the car doing and what are you trying to accomplish?Is it stuck really good but slow etc? I generally start with the thinnest lightest body i can and tune from there on something like a F.But everybody tunes differently.Chances are you will be able to run thin wings without flutter etc.So mount a few different ones and hit the track.


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#6 DaveW

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 02:02 PM

I just rebuilt my longest chassis last night (4.670), I mounted a Z28 with .004 wings. The car I have been running had a Viper and .006 wings. The track is older king and rough in spots, I have been fighting the tight inside turns, mainly the deadman and leading into the doughnut.  


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#7 Robert BG

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:55 PM

Have you tried softer tires in the gutter?I usually go softer in black and purple.Also in a race when i'm having trouble there  and tires werent enough. I'll fold the wings out(sort of like the old Camen pic where they're folded down).I used to think the opposite but a while back Chubby did it to my car in a race and it stuck like glue.I basically give them a pinch by the diaplane and fold them opposite of how i scribe them.It's murder on a body but works a champ in a race.

 

How long preferably in mm is the one you mounted from the front edge of the actual body to the edge of the rear deck?Also how tall is the rear deck and roughly how did you mount it?Forwards or towards the rear?

I usually aim to have my guide right at the edge of the diaplane fold.


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#8 DaveW

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 10:35 PM

I think that I am running as soft or softer than most. I didn't play with the wings, but I'm sure that may help as they were .006. 

 

The front edge of the guide roughly .100 or 2.5mm back from the bend. The rear deck is 1.300 or 33mm.


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#9 Robert BG

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 10:18 AM

I think you're heading in the right direction,it just takes time to get there.

 

What tires are you running now?Hub size and compound?While working on your body,if running really soft tires I'd try and tune to be able to run a step harder.You should pick up some time there too.Also dont forget you can change hub sizes to help in the gutters too.

 

What times are you running now and what are the fast guys running?

 

I run mostly 12's and up so i dont know if it'll be a problem on a F.But watch out for flutter with 004's.If they flutter and vibrate it's like hitting the brakes on the straights although you can add tape and or scribe the wings to reduce it.

 

Another thing I'll do to help in those ares is add a strip of tape to the rear spoiler.Either 2 thin strips down each side or a thicker in the middle to "tighten" up the car.This way I'll be more stuck down low yet I can pull it off after running those lanes ;)


Robert Fothergill

#10 DaveW

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 08:31 PM

Robert I rebuilt two of my older (longest chassis) this week to try, new bodies on both Z28's with .004 wings. The track was fast this week and both cars ran slightly better than when last run (3.70-3.80), but I contribute it to the track more than the revamping. Neither car handled that good. 

​Now after working with those for a while I pulled out the car that I have been racing, 4.400 chassis with a ribbed Viper and .006 wings. I threw it on the track and after a few laps turned my fastest laps to date, my fastest laps ever 3.50, and ended up with running a 3.48 just before racing. On 2 other guys (good local racers) ran 3.45-46's. I took a hit on the first lane that appears to have bent the guide down a little and tweaked the chassis, pretty much ending my day.


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#11 Robert BG

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 03:35 PM

Well you're definitely moving in the right direction.Get yourself a little notebook and make notes of what cars did what,how they handled,tires gears body dimensions and times etc.

 

Now as far s how they handled,the best thing I can think of is for you to take a look at Alpha's website. It's a little old but the important part is in the beginning and that will help you better figure out what the car is doing.But ignore the narrowing part,that pertains to the older style full width tires we used to run.The important part is being able to tell how its coming off the track so you can address those issues .

 

Depending on how bad you tweaked it,if you dont have a jig,a good tech block,graph paper and a small square will help you straighten it up.

 

I'd straighten it up,get a Z28 or foxtail winged up in .004's in roughly the same dimensions and see what it does.Just be sure to take the Viper,this way if the track is slower you can run the same combo and compare thing ;-)

link to Alpha's tech page

https://alphaslotrac.../alphatech.html


Robert Fothergill

#12 Taylor Davis

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 01:45 AM

When you say it's not handling well, what's going on? Is it too tight, and pushing out of the slot, or too loose and the rear is coming around?

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#13 DaveW

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 09:44 AM

Robert I kinda feel like I improved some Haha, The 2 cars I reworked maybe went slightly quicker, and the car I didn't touch matched the fast guys running track record paces in the middle lanes. Yes I do keep notes and have a jig that I use to check with. I have seen the Alpha site, those are helpful tips. I am lucky enough to come back into slot racing with 30 years of RC racing experience, so I have pretty good understanding of the basics, some things transfer some don't.  

 

Taylor on the 2 slower cars, I am fighting both loose kicking out in some turns and also desloting going into or mid turn in others. I am still learning guide depth and how much clearance I should have in the front. This track is older and is challenging in spots. With my better car I could match the best there the other night in the good center lanes, but the tight corners in the outer lanes It was very difficult to even get through them. I know the chassis was tweeked making it hard to get through the right handers. 


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#14 Taylor Davis

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 12:49 PM

Depending on how loose it is you can add tape to the rear spoiler, bend the rear spoiler up, or go softer on the tires.

If you haven't winged a lot of bodies recently I recommend you ask for one of the fast guys old body's, see what there doing. Look for things like body height, total body length, how far forward, or back the body is in relation to the chassis. All of these things can effect handling.

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#15 Robert BG

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 01:59 AM

Dave,I wasnt sure so i posted them.You wont believe how often guys just say my car falls off etc with no other description.

 

As far as guide spacing goes,be sure to check the track in a few places.Older tracks tend to have different depths a lot of times.Over the years they'll just rebraid sections that are bad and not the whole track and that can make things interesting.

 

Are you running full length braid?I honestly dont know if they run long or cut in group F but I'd definitely try cut.

 

I really think a Foxtail or Z28 cut about the same dimensions as your viper is going to help.Dont get me wrong I've won a lot of races with a Viper but by today's  standards its a bit draggy in  my opinion.Although if I was running a older king I might give it a try but not on a group F.


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#16 DaveW

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:52 AM

Taylor I have played with the rear spoilers some and it has helped. I am currently using the Alpha big hub wonders. Lately I have been buying the bodies ready to go, and on the 2 cars with new bodies I mounted them as far back as possible, in those long chassis the rear axle still sticks out .150-.200 past the edge of the body. The odd thing is that no 2 guys are running the same body. 

 

Robert I understand, that's the bad thing about not talking in person, so hard to convey all the elements involved. This track being older, the braid is lower than most, I am still trying to get the balance of too much chassis rub vs too little. I have used full length braid to being cut but to nearly half where contact has been a problem, and I have not noticed a handling or lap time difference. I have yet to get the 2 Z28 bodied car up to par with the Viper car, that one will match or better straight away speed with the best of them. 

 

I have my "good" car flat again. I am thinking about shimming the guide a little, it would go through the lefts pretty good but struggled in the rights (left side of the chassis was lower).


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#17 Robert BG

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 11:13 PM

For guide spacing on a track like that I'll  start really high, run a few laps and pull a spacer till I'm picking up some rubber.Once I start seeing signs of rubber I'll run hard,pull spacers etc till I slow down and dial it backup from there.But thats going to a strange track,I'm sure some locals will get you close and then adjust a few thou up/down by the clock.Just remember to go by lap times and not glue/tire crap on the car.Because it might really rub in some spots but the gains from going lower can outweigh the rubbing slowing you down in others on older tracks.

 

I'm going to be doing some bodies this week,I'm no pro but if you want I can take some pics for you.If theres anything you've got questions on.


Robert Fothergill





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