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Why don't Retro racers use true Retro chassis?


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#1 David Rees

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:12 PM

Why don't Retro racers use true Retro chassis from the '60s and '70s like this?

 

drop arm chassis .jpg

 

drop arm chassis bottom .jpg






#2 Tim Neja

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:25 PM

Because what you're talking about is Vintage!! We race Retro chassis inspired by the '60s materials and designs – but there's no attempt to be Vintage!   :)


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#3 Pablo

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:30 PM

I "use" cars like that all the time, no problem. But that's not a Retro car, it's a Vintage car.

 

I can't race them because they are not legal in any racing events in my country I'm aware of.

 

I wish they were :)


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#4 David Rees

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:30 PM

Notice there is a drop arm and the motor is a "built" motor. 


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:41 PM

Because it's Retro racing, not Vintage racing.

 

While we ran a popular F1 class here at C/R for inline F1 cars, based on a RTR Red Fox supplied, soldered together chassis, starting in 2005, Retro racing as we know it was popularized by the stuff going on at BP.

 

It was Paul Sterrett, Mike Steube and IIRC, Dennis Samson, and was championed here, on Slotblog by PdL when he still owned it.

 

Paul is deceased, Mike no longer seems to have any interest, and Dennis no longer posts here.

 

Maybe PdL or Bryan Warmack have an answer.

 

Regardless, going with inlines with three-sided brackets has worked out real well. Inlines are easier to build, and 48P inline gears, along with being easier to adjust, are stronger and better protected, so there is less attrition in the races.

 

There are Retro anglewinder classes, but they never are as popular as the inline classes. And when anglewinders are raced, the chassis, with the smooth tracks, we race on these days, never look like the above.

 

Hinged drop arms are pointless.

 

PS: Another possible reason for inlines is possibly F1 cars were immediately a popular class, and anglwinders weren't going to fit easily under the original 1-3/8" wide F1 bodies the BP gang used.


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#6 MSwiss

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:47 PM

Notice there is a drop arm and the motor is a "built" motor. 

 

I already pointed out drop arms are pointless for current tracks, in my last post.

 

As far as "built" motors, most prefer not building motors.

 

In the anglewinder class that allows it, most have one of the other racers, out of a small group of motor builders, do the work for them.


Mike Swiss
 
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#7 gc4895

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:00 PM

Let's not also forget, as a racer that slathered more than my fair share of STP-based concoctions on the track, it was another time and place. We raced in teams so the tracks could be goo-laden in our lane. 1/16 inch clearance all around. Rooster-tails of track goo being thrown around. Big block hemi motor equivalents to drive through the slop.

Just my experiences. It's different now. Chassis building is more subtle, less brutish in my view. Sure, I still dream of the time I could charge ahead pushed by a Kean-Can. But I could in no way afford that then.

 

So, enjoy the technology shift. Same tracks. Better racing experiences. That's progress! As always, YMMV.


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#8 Mark Wampler

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:22 AM

I believe Paul Sterrett wanted to go back to pre-anglewinder times of the mid 60's to avoid the semblance of the oncoming motor wars which accelerated motor performance that soon followed in the late 60's.  Because Paul was dead set against anything having to do with motor building, he insisted on inlines and the Cheetah / FK style sealed motors.  They were cheap and affordable for the entry level racer.  There was some dissension about inlines in the beginning and some did want the new retro D3 to be angle winder based.  To satisfy that, the stocker class (NASCAR) was allowed angle winders and then the Retro Pro which used post 60's, higher down force bodies.  Later, the  D3 coupe class was optional inline or angle winder.  Far as SCRRA, only the Coupe and Retro Pro angle winder classes survived, but the Boolah Bash NASCAR enduro is held just once a year. Retro 32 was short lived, even though it featured angle winder format. More inline chassis have been produced.  More supporting components are in circulation now, so inlines are here to stay. Far as I'm concerned, angle winder racing is best suited for flexi designs.


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#9 Samiam

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:27 AM

Why don't retro racers use true retro chassis from the 60's and 70's like this ?

That car can be replicated to conform to most Retro rules with just a few changes. Of course a legal motor would have to be used. The drop arm and plumber set up can be used but the pans can't hinge. They can however, be connected to the plumber rails loose and be connected like a two piece flexi chassis. It would have limited track time as there are few anglewinder classes run. An inline version could just as easily be built. Build it and race it. Is there any Retro racing down under?  


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#10 David Rees

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:41 AM

I prefer build motors to buying many throw away motors . 


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#11 Samiam

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:11 AM

I don't throw them away. I send them to John Havlicek and he uses them to make cool unique powerplants. 

 

What kind of scratchbuilt based racing uses built motors in Australia?


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#12 tonyp

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:25 AM

Retro was basically started by a bunch of guys from the 60’s who wanted to get together once a month with cars they built and have some fun. By not building motors the racers in the USA have boxes full of retro cars for 4 different classes.

The concept works as retro is the biggest form of organized racing.


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#13 Rob Voska

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:20 AM

By not building motors the racers in the USA have boxes full of

 

 

Let me finish that for ya.  "Boxes full of" loosing lottery tickets that they can't work on, but the parts counter is open so please step right up and buy more and more and more and more.

Keep telling yourself that "not building motors is fun, buying 10 to get a few good ones is a blast".  Finding out that the hours spent running them in the latest magic elixir will overcome

mechanical issues will work this time...... but don't........ is a blast.  Taking them to the track only to find out it's another loosing scratch off ticket isn't frustrating.

 

Does anyone think for a minute how off putting that is to a new person?  Oh, never mind, there are no new people.  They never reach that point, having little investment and more sense

than those that have been been blinded by their love of a hobby.  They are handcuffed by "fair rules" so they vote with their feet & leave.  It's much easier to see from the outside.

 

Think about it..........


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#14 kvanpelt

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:32 AM

I spent yesterday rebuilding 3 motors for our upcoming GLISRA race on 3/3/18.

 

I can't say it was particularly any fun or rewarding and I know, had I spent the day working and just bought some of those lottery ticket motors, I'd be money ahead. :blum:


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#15 Mark Wampler

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:44 AM

They're all lottery ticket motors whether rebuildable or not.  I like the more affordable ones.


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You can quote me.

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#16 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:46 AM

We don't use chassis like that because Retro is more retro than that.


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#17 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:46 AM

Rob,
The culprit is the track, not the type of motor.

Building your own doesn't create parity.

In I15's heydey,"the King of I15", use to buy 50-100 arms, at a crack.

On a Saturday afternoon, he would meet his sidekick, halfway between their homes, at a highway truck stop oasis.

They would sit there, drinking coffee, metering the arms, and divvying them up.

Explain to me again, how building their own motor, created some sort of parity.


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Mike Swiss
 
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#18 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:47 AM

I don't have enough free time to bash a class of racing I don't like (can't think of one - if you are a slot car racer - any class - and support the hobby, you are OK in my book) or don't race. Worse, I hate wasting the time to read the endless bashing to get to some content that is meaningful. What was gained?

 

This was my first response to this kind of trolling and will be my last. There are better things for all of us to do.


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Never complacent - striving to race to ever increasing levels of mediocrity!

 

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#19 slotcarone

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:08 PM

I actually raced a chassis I built in the '60's in the first two East Coast Retro series races.
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#20 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:20 PM

Mike,
You've mentioned that before.

How competitive were you?

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#21 Noose

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:04 PM

Rob,
Why do you even slot race then if this bothers you?

Also, in series, classes, etc. where you can build your own motors are you competitive?

If you don’t like retro racing, fine. Bashing it is all BS so give it a break already will ya.


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#22 Dave Crevie

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:21 PM

I always liked building motors. It was one of the few ways I could gain an advantage back in the '60s. I was one

of the first in my area to rewind motors, in the day when Pittmans ruled. I didn't do them for any one else. I needed

that edge. But before long, there were plenty of people doing it, and making a good buck at it. Using a spec motor

keeps that from happening again, so that the cost of racing doesn't get out of hand. A good decision, I feel. In the

same vein, using the simple design of chassis that had been developed from the Steube design made it possible 

for beginners to build their own cars. The ideology behind the class made sense, and is why it has become the

popular class it is today.    


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:22 PM

Joe,
Rob is very good on my Flat track.

I'm really not sure how he is at Mid-America, but I'm guessing, he's at least pretty good.

He's been racing on my track for 9 -10 years.

When he schedules a race on it, I hold it.

He has venues to race, just not very close.

I'm guessing that he is just envious of Retro racing because it is popular in Ohio, and laments there aren't more flat tracks in Ohio, or isn't much interest in flat track racing, there.
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#24 idare2bdul

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:26 PM

It was a Communist plot. All the chassis builders decided to ban motor builders because they had never learned how to build motors and did not want to spend the time, money and effort and the silly number of mostly/ actually useful tools you can buy.

 

the only reason I built in the 60's was because good chassis were unavailable over the counter.  When I started racing again in the mid 70's you could not buy a competitive motor or tires over the counter. Now inexpensive flexi type chassis are readily available and tire choices approach infinity.. A large number of retro racers buy expensive chassis from those builders that are willing to do it for the money or just to keep the non builders racing. Bottom line, people keep showing up to race these but the races often look like a retirement home field trip. When Retro started I felt we should have had a 100 gram weight minimum and used D cans. We were told they had too much variation in quality control to be made our motor of choice and that the smaller lighter motors would be easier to drive. I thought making it a drivers class would benefit from that characteristic not suffer from it.

 

I'm moving to a place where 3 tracks will be in less than an hour drive 2 of them half that. No retro at any of them, oh darrn, I guess i will not have to spend my retirement dealing with building the chassis of the month.


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#25 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:37 PM

And, Mike, I bet whatever classes those three tracks will be running, no Retro racers will be trolling about the rules those classes are run under.


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mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.






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