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Why don't Retro racers use true Retro chassis?


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#26 Mark Wampler

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:42 PM

I think a track owner can have it all.  We race 4 classes with only one being retro canam.  Scale only, flexi's, turbo flexis, JK Indy cars.  Its all good, but sealed motors only.


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#27 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:46 PM

Notice there is a drop arm and the motor is a "build" motor . 

 

David, who built the chassis you show in your first post? The workmanship is first class and it sort of looks like some of Monty Ohren's work.


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#28 John Streisguth

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:13 PM

Looks like a Tottenham (sp?) car.  


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#29 Noose

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:24 PM

You've mentioned that before.

How competitive were you?

 

Mike came in 7th in the A Main. Here is our very first race report. He ran the original Mini Wheels Lola T160!

 

Attached File  FirstEastCoastRace-Feb2007.pdf   2.9MB   113 downloads


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#30 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:35 PM

Looks like a Tottenham (sp?) car.

 

Yes. A real one (vs. the cool class they race in the U.K.)

They aren't using orange tires, Cox spurs, or brass pinions.

FB_IMG_1519244951253.jpg


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#31 Samiam

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:44 PM

A large number of retro racers buy expensive chassis from those builders that are willing to do it for the money or just to keep the non builders racing.
 
Bottom line, people keep showing up to race these but the races often look like a retirement home field trip. 

 

Expensive chassis????...
http://slotblog.net/...-jk-f1-chassis/
http://slotblog.net/...ose-combo-deal/
http://slotblog.net/...s-and-a-can-am/
http://slotblog.net/...slayer-chassis/
http://slotblog.net/...e-ready-chr-f1/
http://slotblog.net/...can-am-chassis/
http://slotblog.net/...mcoupe-chassis/
http://slotblog.net/...n-dragonslayer/
 
These are just a few examples of available hardware. From some of the best builders in the country. From $50 to $165 for a brand new pro built, pro paint chassis/body combo deal (sold). These are within the budget of the teenagers seen at many races. I recall a young pair of kids at a Port Jeff Retro race, 9-10 years old? They got as many years till retirement as I am old.
 
I want to see racers at the next IRRA® race enter their age on their tech sheets. I'll guess the average age will surprise those who still think all Retro  racers are reliving the '60s. Some of the racers have "Transformers" stickers on their cars. I haven't seen any "I like Ike" bumper stickers.


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#32 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:57 PM

What's pretty amazing is how well the basic Retro concept (scale-looking cars, simple scratchbuilt chassis, cheap motors) has stood the test of time! Various series all over the country have made many procedural changes to suit their needs but the simple rules for the cars themselves have stayed much the same over the years! Even when the SCRRA took over from D3 the only real car rule change was to adopt the easier-to-build wider East Coast style F1. Over a decade now and things are still going strong!
 
I'd say the "Founding Fathers": Paul Sterrett, Mike Steube, Dennis Samson, PdL, John Gorski, Noose, had things pretty much spot on from the start!  :good:
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#33 MSwiss

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:05 PM

Good post, Bryan.

 

Even the threads like this one is improving, and we aren't getting questions anymore like;

 

"How come you guys don't use thumb controllers?" or

 

"How come you guys don't wear Nehru jackets, while you race?"


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#34 Rob Voska

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:05 PM

How does the distance from the center of the guide to the hinge point (longer or shorter) affect handling?



#35 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:13 PM

How come we don't use thumb controllers?? :) Sorry, couldn't resist..

Rob, don't you have something better to do? Like work on my tire truer?
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#36 slotcarone

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 07:20 PM

Mike came in 7th in the A Main.  Here is our very first race report.  He ran the original Mini Wheels Lola T160!
 
attachicon.gifFirstEastCoastRace-Feb2007.pdf


I would have done much better but I had an FK motor that could not keep up with the Puppy Dogs that everyone else had!

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#37 NJ Racer

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:02 PM

Gorski wouldn't part with one loaner for Katz from his first lot of 20 PDs he got from Dan D. for that race.   :laugh2:
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#38 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:13 PM

This response might be a little off topic, however: I remember back in the day (maybe the first slot car nationals run at Parma International, 1971 or 1972) An old guy called Gramps came in to Parma and purchased an RTR built by one of the East Coast pros. The car was way too fast for Gramps, but the car looked like it could win the Nationals. The pro who actually built it asked Gramps if he could try it in practice. The pro stated that his RTR was faster than his own car that he intended to enter. Totally awesome story but true. The cost of the pro RTR car was $200 if I remember correctly. $200 in 1971. What would that be today?

 

PS: the RTR probably looked very similar to the one posted in the 1st post here except for the front tire arrangement. Just a guess here.


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#39 Rob Voska

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:59 PM

Rob, don't you have something better to do? Like work on my tire truer?


Typical management type :dash2: .  Give a guy a job with no direction, no prints, no drawings or even a sketch, don't know what he wants, don't know how to do it, but he's just gotta have it done by Friday!  :unknw:
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#40 Tim Neja

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:34 PM

I guess I'll never understand why it's so important for some to bash a form of racing they are not even interested in??? I'm happy slot racing is still around!! It's fun, there's lotsof different classes to run – and lots of classes where you can buid motors to your heart's desire!! Go for it – build something and go race!!

I love Retro racing – a lot of fun, and I had never built a chassis before Bryan Warmack introduced me to a Can-Am kit!! It's all part of the fun, soldering something up and then seeing if it will get around the track with the fast guys!! And the people that are willing to help you learn to build along the way – Bryan,  Steube, Sterret, Samson, Lange, Tony P.!! All these guys are willing to show you what they do to make a chassis work.  

It's all good – go racing. Stop bashing and pull a trigger!! :)
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She's real fine, my 409!!!

#41 Danny Zona

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:11 AM

A great race series will always be mocked by a race series smaller than them by the envious ones. Unfortunately.
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#42 NSwanberg

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:38 AM

I would like to see more new and younger people get involved in slot car racing. I think the price of entry has a lot to do with not seeing more new racers. Sealed motors are fine. What was supposed to be a builders class is once again a buyers class.
 
Those that started Retro did good work. Thank you!
 
Just the same I think resistor controllers with a brake pot is one aspect that would have served our retro hobby/sport much better. I still feel like we are racing controllers. As far as the price of entry - no ball bearings, 1/8" axles, and a solid front axle in a tube would have been a better set of rules to get more new racers racing. A Retro spec tire would help as well. JK small hub Wonder rubber tires would work just about anywhere. It would make it seem more like the spirit of 1966 slot car racing as well to me.
 
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#43 usadar

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:10 AM

What's pretty amazing is how well the basic Retro concept (scale looking cars, simple scratchbuilt chassis, cheap motors) has stood the test of time!   Various series all over the country have made many procedural changes to suit their needs but the simple rules for the cars themselves have stayed much the same over the years!   Even when the SCRRA took over from D3 the only real car rule change was to adopt the easier to build wider East Coast style F1.  Over a DECADE now and things are still going strong!
 
 I'd say the "Founding Fathers", Paul Sterrett,  Mike Steube,  Dennis Samson,  PDL,  John Gorski,  Noose, had things pretty much spot on from the start!  :good:


In Tokyo, Japan, we have been racing retro for 7 years with a great fun.
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#44 slotbaker

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:39 AM

Aussie Retro is celebrating 10 years this August.
:)
 
RIP, Paul Sterrett.
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#45 Samiam

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:56 AM

Steve,
 
Couldn't find any coverage of Retro down under. Could you post some pics and future reports HERE?
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#46 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 11:38 AM

The great thing is that we have slot car racing still, after all these years. There are many choices of classes you can race in. I feel everyone that is negative about whatever in this hobby needs to step back and take a deep breath of air and think about what we have. Stop going all negative on rules and motors and what should and shouldn't be. Think positive be happy and  thank god for all we do have.

 

 I don't care about what the rules are, I abide by them and build my stuff accordingly. The people that write the rules,  tech the cars, organize the racing schedules, promote the races work real hard at that all for our enjoyment.

 

I raced back in the '60s and still race. You can never go back to the past physically but you can live it on the inside. If the cars now were built like they were in the '60s, it would be similar but different because that's just the way it is in life. If you can't get motors to be as fast as the other guys, why don't you ask them for some help? If someone has better cars than I do, I ask them to try my car and get their feedback. If you run out of ideas on how to get better and faster at racing, ask the better and faster guys for their input. I haven't met anyone in slot car racing that wasn't willing to help someone. And keep in mind that if you ask the fast guy for some help tuning your car, don't tell him that what he told you to do to your car isn't going to make it better, because he won't help you ever again.

 

Oh and just a little side note. If you aren't as fast as the fast guys, you need to go to your local raceway and work on your stuff and do testing prior to the big race. The fast guys are at the track tweaking and tuning and many of the other racers are nowhere in sight until raceday. Of course the fast guys are flying, they go down to the track and they work on their cars!


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#47 JimF

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:47 PM

The chassis and running gear shown in the OP is, as has been pointed out, Vintage not Retro. This has as much to do with the running gear as the chassis. Here in NorCal and to a lesser extent in SoCal, we do run chassis of this approximate configuration several times each season. In addition, IRRA has a Retro Pro class which also runs anglewinders. SoCal uses sealed motors and Retro Coupe bodies on their flat track as well as "pro" style retro bodies with built motors on their Gerding. NorCal uses a built PS mini motor (big dog) with a retro coupe body while IRRA uses a sealed motor under a "pro" body.

 

In all cases, all the organizations have chosen to run variations of the FK size motors with some being built and some being sealed. The vintage sized and style of motor was not deemed as desirable and thus has never been adopted by any Retro organization. I suspect that in the cases where "pro" type bodies are run over a built motor and especially on a superspeedway type track, the motor is as much a factor as it is anywhere else. OTH, the built motor over the lowish downforce coupe body such as we run in NorCal, takes the motor pretty much out of the equation.

 

One might ask... why?... how can that be? For the most part, the motor as we run it is too fast for the platform and the flatter speedway tracks that we run on. For sure, once in a while somebody will happen on a killer motor and he will enjoy watching it fly down the straights to the awe of the multitudes of onlookers. Usually however, said car spends a lot of time on its roof and doesn't win the race. This isn't a bad thing necessarily as it gives the "motorheads" something to play with and less to bitch about relative to the other classes.

 

Simple fact is however, the car pictured at top would be maybe 1 tenth faster than the car at the bottom with equal motors and bodies. That's not enough difference to matter to anyone.

 

20180222_111224.jpg

 

20180222_111245.jpg


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#48 NJ Racer

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:28 PM

David Rees,

 

The Jail Door class was launched a few years back by Retro East but it did not gain popularity locally, or on a national level. Perhaps it would be of interest to you and your buddies so check it out here on the blog. The chassis, body, and overall construction of these cars were more indicative of the '60s than your depiction.


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#49 jimht

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:44 PM

Not to argue with any of the good answers given here to this pot-stirring question, but in addition:

 

Most of us that were around then and built umpteen of the chassis pictured by the OP got bored with them decades ago and moved on.

 

What has made much of this Retro thing work is that exact copies of what was done long ago are not what is being raced.

 

I guess if someone produced the parts and enough money were offered such cars could be made again but they would not be retro or vintage, they would be reproductions.

 

You want real Retro/Vintage, buy something good made back then and race it (if you can find it and afford it), but don't expect to have much interest from the racers that like what's being done now.


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#50 Half Fast

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:09 PM

I would like to see more new and younger people get involved in slot car racing. I think the price of entry has a lot to do with not seeing more new racers. Sealed motors are fine. What was supposed to be a builders class is once again a buyers class.
 
Those that started Retro did good work. Thank you!
 
Just the same I think resistor controllers with a brake pot is one aspect that would have served our Retro hobby/sport much better. I still feel like we are racing controllers. As far as the price of entry – no ball bearings, 1/8" in axles, and a solid front axle in a tube would have been a better set of rules to get more new racers racing. A Retro spec tire would help as well. JK small hub Wonder rubber tires would work just about anywhere. It would make it seem more like the spirit of 1966 slot car racing as well to me.

 
IMHO Retro was not designed to be and is not a beginners class, the cars are too fussy to drive and delicate for that. It is more of a class for experienced racers who wish to race cars they can build and drive with some skill.
 
There are plenty of Flexi and Womp classes for beginners to learn on, they can then graduate to the more advanced classes.
 
Cheers,


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