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FSCS - Can we shorten Defender front arms?


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#1 dalek

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:36 AM

I would like to see a rules change, effective immediately, that the front arms of Mossetti Defender chassis can be shortened.
 
I know that one of the performance advantages of the Defender chassis is the 83 mm overall width of the front arms, making the chassis less "tippy".  However, having to monkey around with bodies, in order to make them cover the extra width of the Defender, can be a pain.

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#2 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 09:46 AM

Yes, having the front "ears" of the Defender chassis at 83mm width is a pain in the butt. Basically, no body fits over the ears without a lot of major distortion of the body. This topic deserves more discussion.


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Doc Dougherty
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#3 Racer36

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:22 AM

We have been putting a small notch in the body to clear the wings since the Defender came out. It takes 10 seconds and does not require any rule changes.


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Dennis Dominey

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#4 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:20 AM

Does that not make the chassis visible?  A basic rule.


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#5 Bud Denning

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:24 PM

Most of the sanctioning bodies that allow use of the defender have also allowed the front "wings" to be exposed.


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#6 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:27 PM

Why have rules at all.

 

We are just going to allow whatever comes along anyway. 


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#7 MSwiss

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:57 PM

IMO, it makes more sense to allow them to be shortened.

That seems like less of a slap in the face to the manufacturers who designed their chassis, correctly, to fit under the bodies.
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Mike Swiss
 
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#8 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 01:30 PM

There is another issue with the Defender chassis. The ears being as wide as they are creates a safety issue. At an FSCS race last year, I lost about a dime size piece of my thumb when I got hit by a Defender chassis. Bleed for about 2 hours. These ears are very sharp and everybody should round them out.


Doc Dougherty
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#9 Half Fast

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 01:44 PM

Maybe cut those "hooks" off and round the end?
 
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Bill Botjer

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#10 Mark Wampler

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:39 PM

The rules ALSO say that no chassis may be visible from a downward view.   I say do a small notch on the body.


You can quote me.

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#11 MSwiss

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:47 PM

So you are "pro-tearing up marshal's hands"?

Mike Swiss
 
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#12 Racer36

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:50 PM

There is no greater risk of injury with a Defender than any other chassis, stamped or otherwise. That is just silly.


Dennis Dominey

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#13 MSwiss

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:53 PM

Being exposed, with the body purposely cut away, doesn't pose a greater risk?

I'll disagree with that.

It doesn't seem plausible.

PS-we've raced flexi style cars for almost every year since I opened in 2005.

I've never had anyone bleeding for 2 hours from a car hit.
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Mike Swiss
 
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#14 Racer36

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:57 PM

The tip of the wings is barely visible from above, even with a narrow nose body like a RF Lola C. If a fellow was running, oh lets say a Cheetah A, and hit a marshall in the hand the chassis would either penetrate or displace the lexan and wound the poor fellow just the same.

 Perhaps its time for bubble wrap or body armour on marshalls?

Surely we have bigger fish to fry!


Dennis Dominey

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#15 MSwiss

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:10 PM

Sorry, but what you describe is a front impact situation.

I believe Doc got sliced up like Sean Connery's Aston Martin slices up that Mustang convertible's tire, in Goldfinger.
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Mike Swiss
 
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#16 Racer36

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:30 PM

A driveby slicing? 

Or perhaps those whirligig things from the centre of the wheels?


Dennis Dominey

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#17 Mark Wampler

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:41 PM

The tip of the wings is barely visible from above, even with a narrow nose body like a RF Lola C.

 

There you go, rules are satisfied.  Put a little clear silicone on the edges of the arms.  That illegal ??


You can quote me.

-Mark

#18 MSwiss

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:53 PM

A driveby slicing? 
Or perhaps those whirligig things from the centre of the wheels?

Doc can comment how he got hurt.

He can also offer his opinion if he thinks he would got as hurt as badly, with a car, like the one, pictured below.

How can the ears be an issue in a full frontal crash?

Look how far back they are.

The last time I got injured by a car, where I was swearing and bleeding, a bit, it was from the guide shoe of John Austin's Millinieum car.

You could see the wire clip bent, and IIRC, the braid was almost sliced off, from the braid clip.

20180223_144104-1.jpg

Mike Swiss
 
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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 04:07 PM

If a fellow was running, oh lets say a Cheetah A, and hit a marshall in the hand the chassis would either penetrate or displace the lexan and wound the poor fellow just the same.

Penetrate the Lexan® ?

 

Yeah, maybe if a Benihana's chef was racing on his night off.

 

If your above argument held water, than that would be saying a slot car body doesn't offer any protection for a marshal in a crash.

 

All these raceways, I've been to, that say you have to run with a body, would be off base.


Mike Swiss
 
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#20 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:25 PM

One car came off and as I reached for it, a second car came along and cut my thumb. The first car was lying between two lanes when the 2nd car showed up. It was on Ed's tri-oval; things happen very fast. It you inspect the front ears of all other chassis, you will notice that they are all rounded off. The Defender has very sharp edges, no doubt about it. The hit was not a full frontal hit; more on the front side where the ears are.


Doc Dougherty
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#21 MSwiss

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:21 PM

If the ears were inside the body, do you feel you would of gotten cut, as badly?

 

Or do you think it was just a function of them being sharp?


Mike Swiss
 
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#22 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 08:58 PM

Some of both. Let's face it; no body covers the Defender ears like bodies cover the JK chassis ears or the Mossetti Striker. We have to manipulate the forward sides of all bodies in order to barely cover the Defender ears.


Doc Dougherty
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#23 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:12 PM

 

I would like to see a rules change, effective immediately, that the front arms of Mossetti Defender chassis can be shortened.
 
I know that one of the performance advantages of the Defender chassis is the 83 mm overall width of the front arms, making the chassis less "tippy".  However, having to monkey around with bodies, in order to make them cover the extra width of the Defender, can be a pain.

 

 

 

Yes, having the front "ears" of the Defender chassis at 83mm width is a pain in the butt. Basically, no body fits over the ears without a lot of major distortion of the body. This topic deserves more discussion.

 

 

My .02 .... and I know this won't be popular .... if you choose to run the Defender chassis, then you should have to deal with the quirks of using that chassis.   There are bodies that cover the Defender chassis.  I'm sorry that they're not necessarily the "best" body for a particular class.

 

I understand that the Defender is undoubtedly one of the --- if not the --- best chassis available for flexi-style racing.  But that doesn't mean that racers should get to modify the chassis or change the rules requiring that the body covers the chassis just so they can also run the "best" body for a particular class. 

 

Especially if using a body that doesn't completely cover the chassis is putting turn marshals at a greater risk of being injured by a passing or deslotting car.  If the Defender is proven to be a repeated hazard to marshals, then it should be banned. 


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#24 Shiggy

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:34 PM

Maybe cut those "hooks" off and round the end?
 
Cheers

At our track we require the edges to be rounded and recommend the hooks be trimmed.
Not just a safety issue for the marshals. The track surface and braid was being cut up after we started racing the Defender.
D. "shiggy" Person

#25 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:50 PM

Deburr the chassis before you race it.. figured this was a common sense part of building a chassis.
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