27 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

Will arms for either fit the other spacing-wise? I'm fresh out of Hawk setups, but have a bunch of the PS ones and need to wind some arms for someone over in Europe.

 

TIA.

[Greg VanPeenen]

Yes.

[havlicek]

Thanks, Greg!

[Greg VanPeenen]

John,

 

The Puppy Dog motors would have been great if the arms were put in the JK set-up. Having less metal in the can cured the magnet bind that the Puppy Dog motor suffered from. I have put a few PD arms into the JK se- ups and use them as practice motors. They are much faster then the best Puppy Dog and Retro Hawk motors we have ever raced. The JK set-up also allows more air through the motors allowing them to run cooler. It also makes a lighter motor then you can get with the Pro Slot set-up.

 

Keep up the good work on your Retro motor concept.

 

GVP

[jimht]

The can dimensions are pretty much the same but internally the Pro Slot endbell is about .050" shorter than the JK.

 

Be careful about how far you set the comm away from the stack.

[chasbeeman]

I have used these for slightly-longer arms with good results.

[Jesse Gonzales]

https://www.shapeway...oduct&q=endbell Lots of neat stuff at the site Charles posted from.

 

Jess Gonzales

[MSwiss]

Chas,
For road or drag racing?

[Slot-Racer]

John,

 

The Puppy Dog motors would have been great if the arms were put in the JK set-up. Having less metal in the can cured the magnet bind that the Puppy Dog motor suffered from. I have put a few PD arms into the JK se- ups and use them as practice motors. They are much faster then the best Puppy Dog and Retro Hawk motors we have ever raced. The JK set-up also allows more air through the motors allowing them to run cooler. It also makes a lighter motor then you can get with the Pro Slot set-up.

 

Keep up the good work on your Retro motor concept.

 

GVP

 

How would a Proslot X-12 Armature - PS-4012 do compared to a PD or even a BD in the same can?

[Greg VanPeenen]

I have a couple of play around motors that use the JK can W/ ceramic magets and the ProSlot endbell with ProSlot mini can X12 arms in them. They are very very fast and still have very good brakes. Have not tried the x12 with neo magnets yet.

 

They are also very light.

 

 

 

GVP

[Slot-Racer]

Thanks for the info Greg! 

[gotboostedvr6]

 

 

How would a Proslot X-12 Armature - PS-4012 do compared to a PD or even a BD in the same can?

 

 

 

They run great for a few dozen laps until they get hot or a wall shot takes enough Gauss from the magnet for it to lose punch and brakes. 

 

 

I seriously doubt they weigh less then a current production C can with .450 magnets.  If they are less would you be happy with a loss of a gram or 2? 

[Greg VanPeenen]

They run hot in the proslot can but not in the JK can. Like I said the open design of the JK allows more air to move through the motor. I have run mine 50 + laps in a row on good power with out slowing down, that is in a scale car at 13.6 volts not a wing car at 14+.

 

A Cahoza ULset up with Koford X12 with ball bearings in each end is 20 grams on my scales. The JK with ProSlot 12 arm and bearings in both ends is 20 grams, The ProSlot mini with 12 Arm and bearings in both ends is 22 grams. And I am not guessing like you I just weighed all three. before finishing this post.

 

The design of the mini can motors gives a lower center of gravity also.

 

Regards,

GVP  

[MSwiss]

The design of the mini can motors gives a lower center of gravity also.

No.

 

While the Minimotors are shorter, length wise, and narrower, they are approx. the same height.

 

The particular C can, I just measured, was actually .005" lower than the JK Hawk and PS Minimotor.

[Greg VanPeenen]

Mike,

 

No to you captain caliper.

 

Just went to the shop and measured, with my freshly calibrated Mitutoyo digital calipers. Three Koford feather C can set ups at .623. two JK hawk mini can set ups at .614. Three high, high dollar ultra thin metal can Cahoza UL C cans at .600 can only, with end bell and hardware aka complete set ups .620.

 

What the heck did you measure, or are up still using those dime store plastic calipers.

 

Regards,

Greg VanPeenen.

[MSwiss]

Just like you just stated.

.600" is lower CG than .615".

Here are the motors I compared.

The heaviest part of the motor , the arm, is clearly lower in the C can.

With no part of these 2 motors, is the Minimotor lower.

No slam on Proslot.

The motor has to be a smilar height, because the arms are the approx. same diameter and have to fit in the can.

[gotboostedvr6]

My thoughts, experience, and findings. Maybe a bit off topic....

My kelly 3 hole, .513 HW Proslot M2 X12, GUGU .450 mags honed to .530, Copper kelly hardware, with shunts and 7 tooth pinion weighs 18.8 grams.

6, 2018 US nickels weigh 30 grams,4, 2016 US nickels weigh 20 grams on my scale.

Did some x12 testing on our 220 engleman

With 8:39 gear and .770 tire
3.3 seconds with great consistency

9:40 and .770 tire
3.13 seconds slowing to 3.2

All my Retro pro motors run 3.6 to 3.8 in the same car with various gearing. After 40 laps they run in the 3.9 to 4 second range.

I built one Hawk6 with a koford 12 arm and ceramic magnets.

Runs 4.45 for first 30 laps, slows to 4.58 or so after 45 laps.

[Jason Holmes]

Now the Boy's in White House, TN race Pro GrpF   using Koford or PS 12 arms and the Neo JK set up Richard Curnutte use's his Beuf Bombs and runs 2.25 on there King 

 

jason

[Greg VanPeenen]

Now the Boy's in White House, TN race Pro GrpF   using Koford or PS 12 arms and the Neo JK set up Richard Curnutte use's his Beuf Bombs and runs 2.25 on there King 

 

jason

That is way way faster then Mike could get a Box 12 car to run with that obsolete C can he showed compared to a PS motor when I was talking about a JK Mini motor. What is that a Redfox bend-o-matic c-can. do they even race those anymore. I have not seen one of those for years. Or is it a kelly.

[MSwiss]

I have zero idea which one would be faster.

 

I was just correcting the common misconception that the minimotors are lower.

 

I love the minimotors, mostly because they are a great bargain and a compact package.

 

They just aren't a lower package, because they use the same diameter arms as C can's.

[Jason Holmes]

Those same Boys run 1.95 in Box with Koford and Red Fox set up's 

 

jason

[Jason Holmes]

GVP
 
You should have been at the Nat's last week.

50% of the C cans used were Red Fox, 40% Koford, 10% PS.

So yes they are still getting a lot of use.
 
As they say old is not dead.

Jason 

[Greg VanPeenen]

GVP
 
You should have been at the Nat's last week.

50% of the C cans used were Red Fox, 40% Koford, 10% PS.

So yes they are still getting a lot of use.
 
As they say old is not dead.

Jason 

Jason,

 

Do you think that could be because the Cahoza stuff was banned by the almost extinct USRA.

 

Just a thought. 

[gotboostedvr6]

Yes, of course that is why.

 

RF was the next best choice.

[Greg VanPeenen]

Those same Boys run 1.95 in Box with Koford and Red Fox set up's 

 

jason

Heck Jason,

 

They run 3.5 with 100 gram Retro cars at that track. I may be wrong but I think that 1.95 may have been with what they call Hillbilly Box. Aluminum End Bells, Hand wound arms, ball bearings in both ends of the motor and on the axle and no minimum weight.

 

Big Mike let me run on of those Hillbilly box cars at Skidmarks before it closed and it was going low,low 2.1s at that track on race power. Fun stuff.

 

GVP