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But... but... but... the car will be too fast


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#26 tonyp

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 02:28 PM

Elmsford was a hard track they had to squeeze the whole track narrower to clear the steel structural poles in the building. It was impossible to see coming into the deadman as that was in line with the drivers panel so people were leaning over to see past the pole in the middle of the drivers panel.

The track also had launch ramps in the bank. Lou said they gave the track character and you should be able to drive them. LOL.

Hated that track but always ran good there because it sucked so much we would spend a lot of time practicing trying to get a car to work.

I was out of slots when Lou had it redone and only raced on it for two Retro races years later, which were disasters as the launch ramps were on more lanes and the slots were completely worn out. Green was so bad in the deadman your car would pop out no matter how slow you went. One track I’ll never miss.


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#27 Cheater

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 02:35 PM

This is exactly the thing I find so irritating about slot racing, someone always has a better idea of how to change things to make it better. Print up a set of rules and get a group of guys and go race. You just might have come up with the next big thing... or not!


KVP is absolutely correct, but that's not how most slot racers think.

Long-term slot racers just want rules that suit them and don't really feel it is part of their purview to consider what rules might generate higher/highest levels of participation. And of course, they want others to run the races and series to suit their preferences, too.

It rather parallels the history of the manufacturing side of the slot car hobby, in almost every scale. Don't know that there's ever been a group of manufacturers who worked together to increase participation in the hobby; they just all want to sell more products than their competitors and the health of the hobby be damned.

Heck, even the largely emotionally-driven investing world understands (at some small level) that a rising tide lifts all boats (and vice versa, of course).


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#28 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:23 PM

Greg,

 

What gave you the assumption that anything I said had anything to do with the wishes of any long term slot racers or their preferences? Please go back and read the original post and I think you will see that I offered a road test of a car which resulted in a positive experience and a example of a newer racer interested in not only purchasing a new car but returning to race it also. 

 

While I have your attention I must ask, has it ever dawned on you that there are reputable raceways owners who understand that their customers satisfaction comes first and foremost? If a raceway's paying customers are not happy with what is currently being offered in the way of motors the raceway owner has every right to look upon him or herself to come up with a solution that best fits their raceway and their customers wants and needs and that is what Mark is trying to do. 

 

Well, one thing is for certain, a car doesn't even have to be too fast to draw a bunch of cries and whines over here.

 

Bob K.


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#29 Samiam

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 08:25 PM

There has been numerous discussions about putting a good, fast, and rebuildable motor in cars and as some would say "overpowering them".
 
Most times when this topic is brought up it is met with cries and whines that the cars will be undriveable and that they will get destroyed in horrendous high speed crashes however most of the time these same whines and cries come from people who have no experience at actually trying this exercise.

 

Bob,
 
When you say, "... putting a good, fast, and rebuildable motor in cars," exactly what cars are you talking about?
 
Don't play dumb here. When you throw chit at a fan, expect some blowback.


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#30 Cheater

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 08:32 PM

Bob,

 

I really wasn't addressing your post but rather KVP's.

 

And I do admire Mark for making the effort to offer a different product at an attractive price. Here's hoping it goes on to great success and support from his racers and others. Maybe he will sell a few dozen of them, perhaps even generate some regular racing activity with them, put a few more bucks in his till, and that would be great.

 

But I'll stand by my off-stated claim that one of the reasons for the lack of growth and stability of commercial slot racing is the commonly-held belief (and I don't claim it is yours particularly) that commercial slot racing can be grown from the bottom up, i.e. from the efforts of one or more individual raceway owners. Or from the introduction of a new/different motor, a new/different class of cars, a new/different chassis, body, etc.

 

In the nearly 60 years the commercial raceway industry has been in existence, bottom-up innovations and/or individual car class initiatives have not generated positive results for the overall slot racing hobby/industry and IMO never will. The history of the hobby clearly supports my beliefs in this regard.

 

I did re-read your OP (which was excellent BTW) and toward the end, you said, "... there are good alternatives out there that need to be explored and this car is proof that different is better."

To that I would ask, 'better' in what way or according to what criteria? Faster than some other classes of cars, sure. Cheaper than some other classes, again, sure. More enjoyable to some racers, perhaps.

 

But for yet another new class of cars actually to align with my personal definition of 'better,' it will need to attract a significant level of new participation to the majority of commercial raceways and increase their profits thereby. If you do feel that is possibility in this case, well, maybe Georgia is a "show me" state now along with Missouri. Explore away...


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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#31 Taylor Davis

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 09:23 PM

Greg,

 

I think your CD is skipping. I'm sure I've listened to that particular rant more than five times in a year. LOL. There is, however, a lot of truth in it.



#32 Cheater

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 09:55 PM

Taylor,

 

If you've only heard it five times a year, you've not been paying attention.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#33 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 09:19 AM

Greg,
 
In my second post I stated that Mark was being retroactive because of what he is experiencing at his track and he is searching for a way to keep his customers happy. Think for a minute, is a returning racer of less value then a new racer? Maybe 'retention' needs to be looked at more closely.
 
As for my comments about the cars performance in the original post I was the one who tested the car so I offered my opinions, no harm, no foul, right? I may add however in my opinion again that this car is about as close to the 'golden egg' as I have ever seen. The car is affordable, durable, re-buildable, multi-purpose, and offers what I feels is relatively good speed and handling that everyone from a beginner all the way to a Eurosport world champion can and do enjoy. Again this my opinion.
 
I'll leave with a little food for thought, would the hobby of slot cars be in better shape if we all stuck to the status quo of a few and we all continued to race 36Ds in magnesium chassis?
 
Bob K.

#34 jimht

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 09:44 AM

If all we had to do was provide the customer with a good race car we would have done it already.


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#35 Cheater

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:01 AM

... this car is about as close to the 'golden egg' as I have ever seen. The car is affordable, durable, re-buildable, multi-purpose, and offers what I feels is relatively good speed and handling that everyone from a beginner all the way to a Eurosport world champion can... enjoy.


From my perspective, Bob, the key question is whether or not a new car class will bring in new racers and/or retain/be embraced by a decent number existing racers. I have no doubt it is a very enjoyable type of slot car but is it sufficiently 'attractive' to generate the results you suggest it would? If it is truly the 'golden egg,' then it should easily generate strong racer interest and participation, and overtake most of the other classes, right?

And if it doesn't do that, then what or who is to blame?

... would the hobby of slot cars be in better shape if we all stuck to the status quo of a few and we all continued to race 36Ds in magnesium chassis?


As an aside, there's a fairly active class of 36D cars being that is still being raced here in the Atlanta area.

But I don't understand why you feel any sort of 'status quo' is being forced on you or anyone else. Everyone has the choice to race various flexi classes local and national, the Retro classes under multiple organizations, Group F, USRA wing and Div 2 in numerous series, especially in your geographic region. And, as KVP suggested, you could "print up a set of rules and get a group of guys and go race."

Without getting on my soapbox again for too long, I strongly believe that the reason the slot car hobby is in the shape it is today has far less to do with the type(s) of cars being raced than most feel. Look at the most successful classes/series over the past 50 years for clues regarding what made them more successful that the ones that weren't. Don't think you'll discover that the cars were/are the determining factors.

The hobby of slot cars would be in far better shape if racers, raceways, sanctioning bodies, manufacturers, etc., would speak with a cooperative and coordinated voice to publicize and promote slot car racing as an incredibly enjoyable and compelling leisure-time activity. That's the basic need IMO. Most anything else is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#36 Robert BG

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:40 AM

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here but didn't Penn/Jersey run a successful traveling series that had a FK motor class, a D-can Group 10-based motor and lastly a class with Group 12 C-can motors?

 

All in "flexi" type chassis, too.

 

I didn't race it because health issues got in the way. But it was the one local series that attracted me and quite a few others. I actually have a car built for it even though I'm not a NASCAR fan. I feel the body style makes for good racing.

 

So I'd say its a decent formula and if someone was serious about fast motors in a flexi type race it might be wise to build upon a already successful series. ;) Or is this just another "hot air" topic that goes nowhere?


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#37 Noose

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:03 AM

Last night at Port Jeff a dad and his son came in and he told Doug his kid needed a hobby. He said he raced as a kid and talked about the various raceways. Doug and Chubby hooked him up with rentals to give the kid a feel for driving a car and I could see the kid was hooked. I applaud the dad for taking the lead. I heard them say, yup, we will be back to get equipped.


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#38 Cheater

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:40 AM

Or is this just another "hot air" topic that goes nowhere?


Depends on where you're trying to go. Most journeys start by focusing on a destination.

What do you feel the scenario you describe in your post #36 would accomplish?

Is your scenario likely to bring in 20% more racers? 50%? 100%? Or more?

Would you support your scenario to the extent that you'd volunteer to be one of the people dedicated to implementing it? Or would others have to do the work to prove its effect, either positive or negative?
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#39 Dave Crevie

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 02:45 PM

Greg; I take umbrage with your statement in italics. If there had not been any ground up growth in the hobby,

the hobby wouldn't exist. When I first started slot racing, every track had different classes and modes of

operation. There was no standardization. But tracks still flourished, and slot racing became the most popular

hobby. The track I primarily went to had a class for RTRs, a class for kits, and an open class for everything

else. In the open class I saw every kind of contraption under the sun. But over time, it all gelled into a set

of standardized classes. Back then, it all started from the bottom, and climbed it's way up to the where

the hobby is today. Every class started as someone's idea. Someone who was willing to invest the time

and enthusiasm needed to make it a success.

 

As to the introduction of new classes, I can speak after having a long standing relationship with a manufacturer

who was also a track owner. Several tracks, as a matter of fact. Jerry Kulich had a talent for recognizing when

interest in one of the established classes was waning. So he would invent new classes. Granted, his main

purpose was to sell more stuff, but he honestly enjoyed seeing people having a good time. And I heard all

the fussing from some racers claiming that it was all a conspiracy to hook people into buying more stuff, but

they did have a good time, as hard as they tried to hide it. Some of those classes still exist. And there are

still people having fun slot racing.  


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#40 jimht

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 03:13 PM

Car classes don't "wane", either racers get bored with winning or losing or the manufacturers decide they need to increase sales or cut their losses when interest fades.

 

A real problem with slot car racing on commercial tracks is that racing is based on customer interest instead of real cars.

 

There's a never ending supply of real race cars to emulate, but that's not what happened/happens, (except for the profitable companies and racers that do copy real racing, read Scalextric, etc.).


Jim Honeycutt

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#41 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

Greg,

 

Your perspective really has nothing to do with anything I reported, its as simple as that. The test was my opinion, take it or leave it.

 

I explained my experience, my opinions and why Mark chose the avenue he has chosen however I guess none of this fits into your 'save the raceway' model so perhaps if things don't work out for Mark you can have your thrill of placing a blame on him for trying to keep his customers happy and his raceways doors open. Can't blame me, I never used the word success, you did. I simply stated that the cars attributes.

 

Bob K.


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#42 Robert BG

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 04:05 PM

Depends on where you're trying to go. Most journeys start by focusing on a destination.

What do you feel the scenario you describe in your post #36 would accomplish?

Is your scenario likely to bring in 20% more racers? 50%? 100%? Or more?

Would you support your scenario to the extent that you'd volunteer to be one of the people dedicated to implementing it? Or would others have to do the work to prove its effect, either positive or negative?

 
My point was that there is a existing successful series using Group 12 motors in a flexi chassis and low downforce body that everyone seems to have forgotten about and I'm curious as to why?
 
I honestly don't see what scenario you are implying I put forth other than suggesting that if people are serious about this idea then it might be wise to follow/join/work with a existing format. Instead of just talking about it.
 
As for helping start a similar series, why would I when I have the Penn/Jersey to race in and support that races at the tracks local to me. I had planned to actually race and support the series but a botched surgery put my life on hold for some time. I can't help the fact that I was hit by a drunk driver while working and have had complications from surgeries since.
Robert Fothergill





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