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Low CG guide shoes


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#1 MSwiss

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:59 PM

Some experimental graphite Red Fox guides I made up for one of the racers for the Div. 2 Nats coming up.
 
.025" brass insert for .7 gram heavier flag, in the lowest area of a slot car where you traditionally are unable to add weight.
 
20180420_135321-1.jpg


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#2 SlowBeas

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 02:46 PM

Great job. Doesn't appear to have been an easy task, either.


Jim Beasley
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#3 NY Nick

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 03:38 PM

Will you be making more?


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#4 tonyp

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:00 PM

Interesting idea.

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#5 Tim Neja

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:12 PM

Have you tried these on any Retro cars, Mike? Or any kind of car?? Did you put in the shaft pins, too?


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:22 PM

May I have some, please? Please please take my money :excl: :ph34r: :yes:


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#7 JimF

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:35 PM

Great idea and superb execution... but should'a been made of depleted uranium... just sayin'.


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#8 Cheater

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:40 PM

I was thinking titanium... it's pretty heavy, too. And I just happen to know where some is available! LOL!


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#9 Steve Deiters

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:59 PM

Interesting concept and some "outside the box (slot)" thinking.

 

Hope the edges of the brass are recessed slightly. In the event of a deslot could be hard on track braid in a cutting kind of way..



#10 zipper

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:00 PM

Brass is about 80% heavier than titanium.


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#11 Courtney S

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:08 PM

You mean tungsten.


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Courtney Smith

#12 Cheater

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:21 PM

Yes, thank you, I did mean tungsten.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#13 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:29 PM

Just a question and time will tell but have you created a weak point at the top of the insert that can shear away in a crash?

 

It would probably take an extreme hit but most flag damage requires an extreme hit.


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#14 old & gray

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 06:02 PM

I was thinking titanium... it's pretty heavy, too. And I just happen to know where some is available! LOL!

Yes, thank you, I did mean tungsten.

 

                    gm / in3

Aluminum        44.2

Titanium          72.6

Steel               128

Brass              138

Lead                185

Tungsten         318

Kryptonite          ?


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Bob Schlain

#15 Jaeger Team

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 06:11 PM

Those guides are the result of a divergent and creative thought at the same time.

 

Well done, Mike!


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#16 Jesse Gonzales

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 06:21 PM

That is a great idea, Mike! Would a wrap of Kapton tape help with anything?

 

Good thing tungsten ruled me out as a titanium donor; all the titanium in me is .250" dia. round stock and lock screws, whew!

 

Truly innovative.

 

Jess Gonzales



#17 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 07:15 PM

I've never seen one of these new Red Fox guides break a blade off so I'd bet these will be relatively secure. The only way to know is to try 'em.

 

Not sure I'd be the test driver during the Nats...


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#18 NSwanberg

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 12:09 AM

There are two theories on guide flag nuts. Both of them are wrong.


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#19 havlicek

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 06:36 AM

To me, it's not even all that important how well this works (but I think it should work well!). it's just a cool idea. I guess (?) that some bits of lead on the top of the guide or the guide post could be a fall-back position if this method has problems, but putting some weight on or in the guide is an "old school" kind of idea (remember the huge honkin' brass guide collars) done-up "new school" and much more elegantly here.


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#20 MSwiss

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:13 AM

Haven't been ignoring this.

Just got busy yesterday, with mail order, and customers after my trip to the post office.
 

Will you be making more?


I'm kind of hoping not, as I have a bunch of other projects, but who knows?
 

Interesting idea.


Although this guy is racing at the Div. 2 Nats, I'm not entirely sure these will be of any value for that.

I'm thinking it makes more sense for wing and drag racing.

I suppose for a Retro car, if you removed .7 grams from the front area of the chassis, the car should behave about the same, but with a slightly lower CG.
 

Have you tried these on any Retro cars, Mike? Or any kind of car?? Did you put in the shaft pins, too?

 

A guy ran one on a wing car Wednesday night.

He looked great on the make it or break it black and purple lanes on the lead-on. I'm pretty sure his fast time on black is a record.

When you also factor in he was using a borrowed, not very current controller, I would say the results were promising, but as I said to Tony, with that type of car.

A pin could be installed, but it would be hard on the still but no one has mentioned the graphite version breaking yet.
 

Interesting concept and some "outside the box (slot)" thinking.
 
Hope the edges of the brass are recessed slightly. In the event of a deslot could be hard on track braid in a cutting kind of way..

 
Everything is sanded flush.

I dragged them across the the top of my hand and the "results" aren't different than a full plastic flag.

After the pic was taken, I did chamfer/round the front and rear corners, which makes it safer than the stock flag.
 

Yes, thank you, I did mean tungsten.

 

I thought of tungsten right away, but in a conversation with an old HO friend, Joel Pennington, he had stated it's a real pain to cut.
 

Just a question and time will tell but have you created a weak point at the top of the insert that can shear away in a crash?
 
It would probably take an extreme hit but most flag damage requires an extreme hit.

 

I haven't seen a blade snap off on the brittle nylon style Red Fox flag, so I doubt it will be an issue with these graphite ones.
 

That is a great idea, Mike! Would a wrap of Kapton tape help with anything?
 
Good thing tungsten ruled me out as a titanium donor; all the titanium in me is .250" dia. round stock and lock screws, whew!

 

Over the years, with both the Koford test track and mine, I've tried anything and everything on the side of the guide blade, without any success.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#21 idare2bdul

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 01:33 AM

I regret voting to allow cobalt magnets to be legal. That was at a time they were quite expensive and I had not anticipated the war to create smaller lighter faster motors that resulted.

 

This guide may be great but why add the extra expense you either force everybody to buy them to be competitive or they get banned some places and legal others. A modern Box 12 is fast enough where many observers guess it would be too hard for them to master.

 

How fast would we be going today if we had limited G7 to C-cans and ceramic magnets?

 

So order me one when it comes paired with the titanium-coated balsa guide nut.

 

This is why there are no 12-step groups for slot racers; they gave up on us.


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#22 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:58 AM

Mike,

Awesome job on the installation of the guide weight/plates!...

The next logical question would be what if the plates were longer than the guide itself?... What if they were deeper? I don't know what the IRRA® says in regard to modified guides but the SCRRA has no rule against it. Would pinning the guide constitute adding weight to the guide? Like Mike Boemker noted, it does potentially open a can of worms....
 
A long time ago I tried to wrap the guide blade with .010" teflon tape which in essence made it wider and longer. The car was noticeably slower as I believe the soft teflon actually created more drag.
 
With all the 3D printers and the plastic getting better all the time it won't be long until someone starts making some custom and questionable guides... What should the maximum length, depth. and width be...? 
 
Strictly food for thought here.  :)


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:22 PM

The IRRA® has rules on width and length.

Depth is somewhat self-governing.

I had Geary 3D print a few guide's.

They were either woefully brittle, or soft
and slow.

A couple of the pictured guides ran over the weekend, by me, at the John Austin Fun Race.

Geary Gaspord finished a fairly close 2nd, to the guy who usually wins in Group F, Michael Iga.

Geary turned some great times, both in the middle, and in the gutters.

What impressed me most, was that Geary, who is just starting to Wing race again, after a track call, took off and hopped down the straightaway, but didn't deslot.

Hopefully, the seven tenths of a gram heavier guide made a big enough difference, that he didn't actually deslot.

I also ran one in the Retro Can-Am race.

I won and ran the fast time, blah, blah. blah, but it's really hard to say, without doing A-B comparison, if it was an advantage.

Mike Swiss
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#24 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:56 PM

I love the idea, Mike. Can't wait to see if there is an A/B difference on a Retro or flexi car, especially on a flat track.


Howie Ursaner

#25 Brinkley47

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:35 PM

PayPal loaded, Mike. Need a total.  :)


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