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The Roy Wong sidewinder chassis build drawing


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#1 brucefl

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:39 PM

With God's help this small step in the community outreach project and mission.


This project/mission is bigger than me,so with the help of the almighty if it pleases him and I put my nose to the grindstone all infinite branches of the mission should progress forward.

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#2 Gene/ZR1

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:56 PM

With God's help this small step in the community outreach project and mission.


This project/mission is bigger than me,so with the help of the almighty if it pleases him and I put my nose to the grindstone all infinite branches of the mission should progress forward.

 

 

Here ya go, Dynamic part 2011

 

post-11-0-03548700-1362022341.jpg

 

g;


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#3 brucefl

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:27 PM

I can steel idler gear from that car.

Thanks for the help.
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#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:06 AM

Nice sketch Bruce! :)


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#5 Dallas Racer

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:09 AM

 

 

Here ya go, Dynamic part 2011

 

 

Thanks for posting that. I kinda like Dymamic chassis and watch them on ebay. Own a few as well. I wasn't aware of that one.

 

And yes, nice drawing, Bruce.

 

PS: Don't count on God's help. I think he has more important things to do.


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#6 brucefl

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:33 AM

 

Thanks for posting that. I kinda like Dymamic chassis and watch them on ebay. Own a few as well. I wasn't aware of that one.

 

And yes, nice drawing, Bruce.

 

PS: Don't count on God's help. I think he has more important things to do.

My reason for getting involved with slotcars again besides it being a passion,is to incorporate it into my mission/project and community outreach to help others to help themselves and build/correct character,and help the individuals to objectively evaluate their their purpose and G d given gifts/skills and follow the path of least resistance in career choices and interpersonal relationships and succeed in their missions in this world,and where they cant help themselves match mentors to help them,as well learn self diagnosis of ones life and learn critical thinking to find solutions,(working with other professionals and spiritual leaders to help one individual at a time.

 

slotcars are a means to learn skills hands on and trial and error in a safe environment create and build the character skills in a fun envirinment learng to be good citizens without the stress of it being labeled as such.

 

we all fundamentally are mild manored grown out of our slotcar community,this is a special trait it can impart,like scouts and 4h,etc.etc.

 

If you believe in G d then you pray that you are following the path he wishes for you to follow,so when I say G d willing it means that he will be pleased with my choice of the use of my time and that it works with his plan for me(I try to choose endeavours that are elevating me and something or someone around me in this world in attempting to make this world a better place,as wood be his wishes,AMEN).


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#7 brucefl

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:44 AM

G d has nothing better to do than all of us,we are part of the big scheme,without thinking beings that can make good choices instead of bad and eventually meeting G ds threschold of good in this world is the ultimate truth he wishes for us to all realize,and my observation has realized that most of us as we approach our golden years wakeup and start to realize that there is a bigger purpose than the mundand

e,and start the process of aligning with that purpose,hopefully before its too late,anyday above dirt is a good day,we have a chance to do good and make the difference.


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#8 brucefl

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:29 PM

Here's the HO companion car drawing,I would like to build cars as pairs in both scales,if I'm successful I will have taken schlossers idea full circle,I will add his photos to the blog.

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#9 brucefl

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:34 PM

Nice sketch Bruce! :)

Thanks Bill,hopefully it will lead to some actual biilding,and inspiring some of the youth in my community to do the same.
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#10 brucefl

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:50 PM

Better photo

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#11 havlicek

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:56 AM

Hi Bruce,

     I'm a pretty rotten scratchbuilder, but even if I were a decent one, it would be all-but-impossible for me to build a chassis that was supposed to be anything more than a rough-approximation of the original from the drawing.  I mean, it does give a general layout, but pretty much no details.

*Looks like the chassis is a simple "floppy pan" type, with no plumber movement...maybe?
*The pan on the non-driven side of the chassis looks like it ends where the motor starts?
*No details about how many rails, and what they're made of...all brass rod?, some piano wire?
*A lot of details about both the front and rear axle supports/uprights and bracing not there?
*There appears to be a wide crossmember just forward of the motor that also locates the droparm hinge?...and the bitebar?
*The idler gear is shown just "floating" in space, when this is a critical component.  Getting the idler gear to be solid and rotate as perfectly as the pinion and the spur with only a "half shaft" is probably one of the most difficult things about the chassis, and nothing is shown about how that is done.

*The rear axle "seems" to be supported above the rails, so simple "bent uprights" are the assumption, but there's also what looks like a single crossmember tying the whole rear end together.  Is that *important piece" done by starting with one complex piece of piano wire that forms the outline of the chassis (*with the extra bends around the motor), afterwhich the rest of it all is then built on to?
*What motor type is the chassis made to accomodate?  The motor in the drawing is too vaguely drawn to even make a guess.
*Nothing about the body mounts is shown.  On the driven side, it would seem as though pintubes could be easily mounted on the pan, but on the non-driven side, things get dicey.  Different builders also had different ideas just about how far apart the mounts were located, and a "faithful replica" would even include specifics about such relatively small details.
*There's no details about the drop-arm given...how thick, how wide, guide lead?
*Even basic chassis dimensions are missing, although those *could* be assumed given the period (I guess?), but they would still be based on just assumptions.

It goes on and on Bruce.  I don't mean to discourage you at all, but having this chassis built would really require the equivalent of an engineer's drawing, or a series of detailed photos, or many long conversations (by phone?)...most likely all of the above(!), with someone who was very familiar with the chassis, and an actual build-process with starts and revisions along the way and all that entails.  In the end, the resulting chassis would be VERY expensive because of the hours and hours involved in both getting the details worked-out and making a functioning chassis and most likely still not be detail-correct.


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#12 tonyp

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:20 AM

Jairus already built a beautiful rendition of this car with little or no real info which Bruce said is wrong. There is no way the chassis can have a 3/4” wide drop arm as Bruce insists and have the pans with no cut around for the Motor unless it was a custom built super tiny Motor and it would probably been built into the chassis.

Ed Lewis already explored a full sidewinder making the current era Motor as short as possible and still had to cut out the pans to clear the endbell. He used a 3/4 drop arm on his but the chassis ended basically at the motor can with the can holding the rear axle and front of chassis together.

Why the obsession over a car that was never really very good to help teach younger people hands on skills, teach them slot car skills on current equipment that they can actually go race if the wanted to instead of something that would be a major project or even impossible to build for 99% of today’s experienced builders. Why not just say we are going to build a rocket to go to the moon?

If you want to accomplish what you seem to want to do you have to be realistic.
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#13 Jaeger Team

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:38 AM

Here it is, awesome!

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#14 Mattb

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:15 AM

Looks like a $500 picture.


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#15 Jaeger Team

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:45 AM

Looks like a $500 picture.


$$ and likes received go to Master Jairus !
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#16 brucefl

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 11:00 AM

I will respond next week ,thanks for the fodder to moe over,the goal was tobtry and figure how roy did it so ill incororate your ideas,why not modify the endbell to allow the can to be flush mounted to the bottom of the chassis as jim greenaway did with a motor he built for me and he used epoxy to recofigure the endbell,simple fix.


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#17 havlicek

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:14 PM

Looks like a $500 picture.

 

Props to Jairus on his chassis!

 

 

 

why not modify the endbell to allow the can to be flush mounted to the bottom of the chassis 

 

If the motor in Jairus' picture is correct (I think a Mura "A" or 16D in "can-drive"?), modifying the end bell would be about the easiest part of the job Bruce!  :)


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#18 Dallas Racer

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:39 PM

I think Jairus chassis eclipses the Roy Wong original. Done! Nothing further needed.

 

And there's a reason idler gear chassis are few and far between. As Tony has pointed out, they don't work worth a crap. So why are you wanting to build one? To shame Roy? 

 

This must be the reason Roy won't respond. He's embarrassed.


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#19 brucefl

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 02:09 PM

Hi Bruce,

     I'm a pretty rotten scratchbuilder, but even if I were a decent one, it would be all-but-impossible for me to build a chassis that was supposed to be anything more than a rough-approximation of the original from the drawing.  I mean, it does give a general layout, but pretty much no details.

*Looks like the chassis is a simple "floppy pan" type, with no plumber movement...maybe?
*The pan on the non-driven side of the chassis looks like it ends where the motor starts?
*No details about how many rails, and what they're made of...all brass rod?, some piano wire?
*A lot of details about both the front and rear axle supports/uprights and bracing not there?
*There appears to be a wide crossmember just forward of the motor that also locates the droparm hinge?...and the bitebar?
*The idler gear is shown just "floating" in space, when this is a critical component.  Getting the idler gear to be solid and rotate as perfectly as the pinion and the spur with only a "half shaft" is probably one of the most difficult things about the chassis, and nothing is shown about how that is done.

*The rear axle "seems" to be supported above the rails, so simple "bent uprights" are the assumption, but there's also what looks like a single crossmember tying the whole rear end together.  Is that *important piece" done by starting with one complex piece of piano wire that forms the outline of the chassis (*with the extra bends around the motor), afterwhich the rest of it all is then built on to?
*What motor type is the chassis made to accomodate?  The motor in the drawing is too vaguely drawn to even make a guess.
*Nothing about the body mounts is shown.  On the driven side, it would seem as though pintubes could be easily mounted on the pan, but on the non-driven side, things get dicey.  Different builders also had different ideas just about how far apart the mounts were located, and a "faithful replica" would even include specifics about such relatively small details.
*There's no details about the drop-arm given...how thick, how wide, guide lead?
*Even basic chassis dimensions are missing, although those *could* be assumed given the period (I guess?), but they would still be based on just assumptions.

It goes on and on Bruce.  I don't mean to discourage you at all, but having this chassis built would really require the equivalent of an engineer's drawing, or a series of detailed photos, or many long conversations (by phone?)...most likely all of the above(!), with someone who was very familiar with the chassis, and an actual build-process with starts and revisions along the way and all that entails.  In the end, the resulting chassis would be VERY expensive because of the hours and hours involved in both getting the details worked-out and making a functioning chassis and most likely still not be detail-correct.John all i presented here is a very rough drawing of what i remember from  around 1970,I admired Roys work which me and my friends had opportunities to see when he showed to the HO races we had at our homes and at the glen oaks raceway being at 17 Roy was an engineering student his ability was far higher than anyone it was based on actual mechanical engineering and his calibre of work and its neatness was astounding,When fred saw the chassis there was the hope he would shed light technically,and he asked him for photos,so out of wanting to recreate his chassis with what info i do have to enjoy and people here not having any other solution and i promised atleast a drawing which this is the reason for this posting now for anthing more to come out of it without further info on the original will require me and possibly others to figure out the solutions to the engineering obstacles(truly this is a test for us all to look into the minds of the builder/builders of these true gems of slot car chassis engineering history.

 

yes once the engineering obstacles are figured out a true schematic drawing would need to be created(as steve okeefe has produced here before,and the computer program for this i will need to make this or any future chassis i would like to design and build)(if anyone knows how to create those schematic drawing i would appreciate the help,thanks in advance.)by the way im not an artist and this drawing was created from memory and more or less measurements from other 1/24th scale slotcar just so everyone can see more or less what i had seen,its not meant to dishonor Roys work which was impeccable,its meant as flattery as they say immitation is the highest form of flattery.Knowing Roy he would not be offended at someone appreciating his work and wanting to try to emulate it.


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#20 brucefl

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 02:23 PM

Again John its a vague rough drawing as it states in the description,like impressionism,it wasnt meant to be as a schematic,hopefully through this mental exercise I and others will learn how to take our dream builds from imagination to reality,and tonyp could fill in some of the blanks of the engineering reality,hows,whys,and whats the designer pare excellance like tony does.(sorry Bruce thats a trade secret,I will probablly here,as stuart koford told me,lol)


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#21 brucefl

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 03:06 PM

Jairus already built a beautiful rendition of this car with little or no real info which Bruce said is wrong. There is no way the chassis can have a 3/4” wide drop arm as Bruce insists and have the pans with no cut around for the Motor unless it was a custom built super tiny Motor and it would probably been built into the chassis.

Ed Lewis already explored a full sidewinder making the current era Motor as short as possible and still had to cut out the pans to clear the endbell. He used a 3/4 drop arm on his but the chassis ended basically at the motor can with the can holding the rear axle and front of chassis together.

Why the obsession over a car that was never really very good to help teach younger people hands on skills, teach them slot car skills on current equipment that they can actually go race if the wanted to instead of something that would be a major project or even impossible to build for 99% of today’s experienced builders. Why not just say we are going to build a rocket to go to the moon?

If you want to accomplish what you seem to want to do you have to be realistic.Tony it started out by my amazement of the work Roy showed me with maybe 2 others,at the time the chassis was very pertinent,it was prior to the ed lewis sidewinder chassis,so im sure it was a mechanical engineering problem Roy wanted to solve,and cars like the la cucaracha were idler gear sidewinders,that being said,jet ahead 38 years and this blog site and my interest to re create memories,and Roy and the chassis being found ,i had hopes to see it,as you guys got to see the independant suspensions cars he built and some here were inspired to want to build them.

 

For me to be inspired to build and after I build to teach what I learned it must be something im passionate about,and this im passionate about,for that matter arm winding and motor building of that era,but i want to get to the point where i can design like you ,roy,emott,jim greenaway,then teach others,the critical thinking it takes and prove it out here then maybe apply this to life in general,Tony me being Dentist and spiritual person has both taught me,how to diagnose & plan effectively in my field and businessnto some degree,now with slotcars like an erector set which is the toy that help developing minds grow in the complex topics that it can think through to solve problems.

 

I prefer that era,but in time i may join the current phenomenon era,although ive done some group7 of the current era thats an interest too but less practical do to cost for the youth.

 

By the way Tony the drop arm is 1 inch and 1 rail on either side of the axle supports then a fully functional plumber,and based on the lewis sidewinder which jairus built for me if the motor is moved up to the idler gear position(and yes i left out the idler gear mounting bracket it wasnan oversight,i added it in now)the travel of the plumber may not interfere,(and the mounting of the champion can motor is the same width as the drop arm space and with fancy fenagling of the endbell it seems possible that the motor could fit without fancy engineering.(now if you take into conciderations the drop arm width 3 pieces of piano wire including the uprights the plumber wire then the normal car width minus these calculations then you can figure out the bat pan width.Now Ive got a possibility to build the car,taking into conciderations all the normal car dimentions and having the raw material and tools and jigs along with plenty of cans endbells magnets,promlem is the idler gear assembly.Any thought where to scavenge this from?


Bruce Schwartz

#22 brucefl

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 03:15 PM

Here's the beautiful build that Jair us did for me of the ed Lewis sidewinder next to my drawing of what I recollect of the Roy Wong sidewinder idler gear car.

Bothell have 1 inch drop arms and champion can motors.

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#23 brucefl

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:51 AM

Next drawing I think will be the Bob emote Tottenham car.In 1/24 & HO.
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#24 brucefl

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 06:59 PM

Here's another freehand drawing honoring Steve O'Keefe unbelievable artistry replica of my lost emott anglewinder in HO scale.
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#25 brucefl

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 07:01 PM

Here it is.

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