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Cox number placement


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#1 Martin

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:47 PM

I recently restored a Cox Lotus 40 RTR and wanted confirmation on the factory number placement. I did a google search but would like any collectors to confirm what they know.

Were the paper numbers applied at the factory or by the end user?

The car I have has its original paper numbers on the doors, not the rear fender like the box art. Which is correct?

 

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  • cox rtr.jpg

Martin Windmill




#2 MattD

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:03 PM

Martin, I'm pretty sure the rtr stickers were applied at the factory.   The kits came with waterslide for the 30 or 40.    Probably the picture you posted is exactly as they came from the factory.   All I've seen were already applied. 

 

 I think I may have had one that was still sealed in the bag and the stickers were on it.   That's been so many years ago., I don't remember for sure.   

 

General info, all rtr cars Lotus wheels, I think, and all had front steering.


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Vintage Cox Slot Cars

#3 don.siegel

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:07 PM

Matt, 

Weren't all the steering cars fitted with Ford GT40 wheels? There were only the GT40 and Lotus with the steering, but I think even the Lotus had the Ford wheels, because they never adapted the right ones for the Lotus. 

 

Speaking of the Lotus... I had remembered it was sold as the Lotus 30/40, and you could build either version, but all the boxes I've seen lately just have Lotus 40 on them... did I remember this incorrectly, or is the option just on the instruction sheet and not on the box? 

 

Don 



#4 MattD

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 03:30 PM

I think you are right Don.  I got it backwards about the wheels.  Maybe they all had the Ford GT wheels.  All the kits I've had had decals for 30 or 40.   We need P to check in on these Cox questions.   He does know the details of all this.


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Vintage Cox Slot Cars

#5 Martin

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 03:41 PM

So Matt and Don are the paper number placement the same on all RTRs Lotus 40s or was it left up to the factory assembler ?

This is my car with untouched paper decals which is the same as the one in the first pic I posted from E-bay. So two are like this, does anyone know if there are variations to this placement ?

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  • Lotus 40                 rtr.JPG
  • Lotus 40  c              rtr.JPG

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#6 don.siegel

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 05:26 PM

Martin, 

 

Just got a confirmation from a buddy with a mint car, and the decal placement is as you show. 

 

Don 



#7 Martin

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 06:48 PM

Thanks for that confirmation Don, So that's three we know of. It seemed strange to me that the Cox factory would not follow there own art work which is based on the real car. But there it is.

I just thought of something that would effect that factory decision on placement. The door is a one dimension curve and the fender is a compound curve, so I bet paper stickers stay stuck better in that location. 


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#8 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 07:13 PM

Less chance of a wrinkle developing there too.


Bill Fernald
 

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#9 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 08:43 PM

Since these are scale models of real race cars, look to actual race cars photos for variations of numbers and sponser placements.  See www.racingsportscars.com for examples.

 


Larry D. Kelley, MA
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#10 Martin

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:42 PM

This was obviously a model of Jim Clarks Lotus 40 and the number was always on the rear fender for visibility for lap scorers. As Bill and I suggest  paper stickers just do not conform and stay stuck to compound curves, so I'm convinced it was just easier to stick it were it would stay stuck on the RTR cars.

Larry thanks for the web site,lot of info there. If you google Jim Clark Lotus 40 you will see the number is always on the rear fender and that's the way Cox depicted it in there art work.


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#11 don.siegel

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:39 AM

Martin, 

 

The art work on the boxes is often different from the actual cars inside... the illustrator may not have had the finished car as a model, or may just not have cared that much. 

 

The most flagrant examples are on set boxes from Japan and Hong Kong, where the cars on the outside sometimes have nothing to do with those on the inside! 

 

You're probably right about the paper decals being easier to apply on flat surfaces - in fact regular decals aren't that much easier! 

 

Don 



#12 Allan Feldman

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 06:35 AM

I suspect that Cox did what was right for them as a Company . If it was easer and faster to apply the sticker where they did due to commercial output; then that's what they did. Although they are regarded as scale models they were in the 1960's still being outputted to a young toy market. The obvious box art contents difference is on their Ford GT model which as I have said previously was made for the Le Mans/Reims car with driving lights under the main lights. When Le Mans and Reims were failures. They tried to latch onto the 1965 Daytona win by producing the existing tooling of the model with a the Daytona transfers and using the existing Box artwork as the Daytona winner. Without modifying the artwork for the single lights and front revisions that the Daytona winner had! However, on the 1/32nd Cox Ford GT Box artwork was for the single headlight car!!!!

Regards Allan



#13 satchmo

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:47 PM

Don,

 

In response to your question about the Lotus 30 vs 40 configuration options on the box, you are correct, the boxes I've seen only represent the Lotus 40 version.  The instructions show the alternative Lotus 30 configuration and the kit contains a different roll bar, clear plastic cover for the intake pipes (which you had to shorten) and alternative exhaust which were located at the lower rear of the body.  ...plus the alternative decals that Matt already mentioned.

 

PS: Having recently built one of these, I can absolutely confirm that the white number roundel decals do not want to conform to the curves of the rear fender!   ...especially after being coated with a decal preservation liquid to keep the 50+ year old decals from disintegrating!  As you can see from the pics, a compromise was reached moving them lower on the side on a flatter surface.

 

Next time, I'll spring for the repo decals!

 

Jim

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#14 Martin

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:30 AM

Very nicely done Jim. 

Actually my question was only about the RTRs not the kit you built so well. I had this car with original Cox factory PAPER numbers and wanted to know if all the RTRs were placed in that door location

Here is a great 30/40 Lotus build by Jean. Well worth a look.

http://slotblog.net/...0-and-lotus-40/


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#15 MattD

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:30 AM

Nice Jim.   The Lotus does build into  maybe the best looking of the original mag chassis cars.    It's COG also makes it the best runner when  the cars are set up equally.


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#16 satchmo

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:29 PM

Hi Martin,

 

I was replying to Don's question from the #3 post on 23 May....and then a subsequent comment about the regular decals not being much easier to apply than the paper...guess I hijacked the thread a little bit...sorry.

 

All I know is that the vintage decals for this car kicked my A$$!!!  

 

As for Jean Michel's cars.....a man has to know his limitations and I know mine.  All I try to do is build them stock and limit the glue smudges as much as possible!... (in fact, I use very little "glue")

 

Matt,

 

Took me a minute to figure out "Center of Gravity"....was wondering if there was an extra gear I missed when building the chassis! :dash2:

 

Jim

 

 


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#17 Martin

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:40 PM

No problem Jim, its all good.

I wonder if the Testors decal bonder and or the decal softener helps ???

Whats next on your build list?


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#18 satchmo

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 11:37 AM

I used a product called Microscale Liquid Decal Film that I found in a local hobby shop.  Use it to coat the vintage decals to help hold them together.  It does make it a little more difficult to work with them as it stiffens them somewhat.

 

I've always used Solvaset to get them to snuggle into the details of the body.  With the use of the film beforehand, I have to apply multiple applications in some instances.

 

Next build for me is Monogram 1/32 Lola T-70 and a refurb on a really nicely made Mono 1/32 Lotus.  That is...the chassis is nicely made with rear axle ball bearings soldered in place and a ball bearing soldered on the motor.  The guide flag was modified to a fixed configuration and the blade whittled down to pin.  Has beveled gears and nicely contoured rear silicone tires.

 

Very smooth.  Unfortunately, the body was spray painted orange....everywhere,... including cockpit, driver and engine detail!

 

Stripped the paint with Liquid Plumber and now ready to detail it and add decals. 

 

Lots of fun!

 

Jim


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#19 satchmo

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 08:47 PM

Martin,

I did a little research on the Testors Decal Bonder as I wasn’t aware of it. Think I might give it a try, along with their decal softener.

I’ve used Solvaset forever and it has usually worked very well but perhaps these products might work better together coming from the same company.

Jim
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#20 Martin

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 09:37 PM

I am interested in your findings. I have used the Solvaset you mentioned. But I have lots of old decals and do not want them to fall apart but do want to get them soft an compliant.


Martin Windmill

#21 don.siegel

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 03:37 AM

For what it's worth, I got stuck last month with a race coming up, and wanted to save the decals on a 60 year old Merit Vanwall... wound up coating them with "Klear", and it worked! Seemed to work as well or better than the product sold by the Solvaset folks... 

 

Don 



#22 MattD

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 08:25 AM

I have been coating old decals with Testors or Tamiya clear lacquer.  It has worked fine to save those old broken sheets.  One of the guys has used Testors  decal coating and he likes it.   I guess it is a lacquer, but I'm not sure.  I clear coat cars with clear lacquer, so using lacquer on the old decals is a good solution for me.   I don't have problems with mixing paint types.  I have a Tamiya decal setting solution I use.


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Vintage Cox Slot Cars

#23 Martin

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:28 AM

I thought I was done with this question but then saw this RTR on ebay. Could it be the Cox workers place the paper stickers in either location depending on the assemblers preference ?

https://www.ebay.com...40/263831730379

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  • cox 40.jpg

Martin Windmill

#24 TSR

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 06:57 PM

Martin, it's possible, yes.
First all the Cox RTR cars were assembled by Sanda-Kan in Hong Kong, with the paper stickers installed on the Chaparral and the Lotus, but oddly, never on the Ford GT. The other RTR cars had water-slide decals and those were also installed on the built models, the 1/32 scale Ford GT and Cheetah and the 1/24 scale Cheetah.
The cars were then wrapped in soft paper and bagged with the paperwork and in case of the Chaparral, the little bag containing the driver bits, and shipped unboxed in cartons of 12 at a time to the Cox Center in Santa Ana, where they were boxed and placed in dealer cartons.
Here is a picture of a carton coming from Hong Kong, before the cars were boxed in Santa Ana:

4553186_1_l.jpg

Here is a BRM RTR just the way it came from Hong Kong:

2010-10-14 107.jpg

The Chaparral straight out of its box:

c200.jpg

And the Ferrari F1 (the first ones had "chome" plated wheels and front suspension, those are really scarce).

c251.jpg





 


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#25 MattD

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 10:59 PM

Philipp, explain a little farther if you will.   You show two Lotus with #8's on the door and one Lotus on the rtr box with a #1 on the fender.   Which is correct?    Both of them?   

 

Here's one I had a few years ago.

 

COX LOTUS 40.jpg


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