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More 4002FK blues


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#26 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 05:01 PM

Out of 140 GTP entries over the course of the 2017-18 Ohio Challenge Cup season, we had less than ten motor failures and at least two of those could be attributed to crash damage. We've been using this motor in GTP since 2014-15, and exclusively since 2015-16. I'm sorry guys, but these are astonishingly rugged little motors and I have not seen anything like the fragility you're describing and that's on a wide variety of tracks ranging from fast Gerding Kings (Mark's Model World) to a tight UK Black (Washington Slot Car Club).  

 


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#27 swodem

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 05:20 PM

Maybe not Justin, but we are
Whether it’s the batch or whatever

Our clubs down here race weekly
So we are pretty in tune with the gear
We have run PS4002FK since Jan 2015, so we’re not strangers to it

This year we ran a 6hr Enduro and had terrible motor failures for all but one team
Normally that motor will last the 6hrs no prob
Throughout 2015~2017, smelling motors burning up was a rarity, although one track did have its issues with melting endbells
Now it’s nearly every week someone’s motor smokes....
Just sayin’


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#28 Bazzie

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 05:31 PM

I trim back the brush tips as we are allowed, and I’ve only had one motor smoke in the last year, and it was my fault more than the motor. It was recoverable also, got a few more weeks of racing out of it. The go-slow has been more common for me


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#29 Racer36

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 06:15 PM

I suspect Justin is viewing the PS FK through rose coloured glasses by nature of the fact he is allowing them in an additional class in his series. The truth of the matter is that they fail more often than a JK RH, but are more consistent than the RH as far as performance. Everyone I have seen running them has a slew of them in their box, which tells me there are duds and bombs.
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#30 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 07:24 PM

You're welcome to believe that it's self delusion, Dennis, but the truth of the matter is that OCC data doesn't back up that the FK has a higher failure rate than the Retro Hawk.

If there is anything that colors my viewpoint on the motor it is the inarguable fact that GTP as a category in the Ohio Challenge Cup was DOA as a C-can class. The introduction of the PS4002FK "GTP Light" at first was a stopgap to bolster grids. Then Mike Peskar scored an overall win with the FK over the C-cans.

The rest is history and has led to what is truly the most popular single class in the Ohio Challenge Cup. I hesitate to say that any other motor on the market in 2014 could have done so much good for one class.
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#31 Bud Denning

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:15 AM

Well I'll take any "duds" people want to give away. Ones that I thought were duds originally turned out to be my fastest group f wing car motors. I tq'd the group f "worlds" at marks model world with a motor that would barely break 4 seconds in a gtp car and went 2.90 in a wing car. Explain that anyone? Gtp had a spec pinion of an 11 and I tried spur gears from 34-38. No change. Wing car with the standard gearing most everyone runs there and it was a rocket. Expand your use and maybe you'll find one of those ugly ducklings turn into a swan.


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#32 Fast Freddie

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:17 PM

Steve, did you guys glue the EB bushing before the endure?  How about changing the brushes and springs.  If you haven't seen Ron Hershmans tutorial on You Tube about the brushes and springs in these motors it's a good education, check it out.  I recently found that two of my twelve 4002FKs have arms that are rubbing the magnets.  I didn't think that would ever happen because most of those motors have a very big air gap and no the magnets didn't move.  They are still glued in tight and I also tightened the magnet tangs with snap ring pliers so they aren't moving just rubbing and they do get warm on the power supply at 5 volts.


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#33 swodem

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 04:16 PM

FF we do quite a few things to Enduro-ise the motor within allowed rules

As do the other teams, whom all (but one) also had multiple failures



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#34 Shiggy

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 10:52 PM

Does anyone here KNOW if the 4007 arms are sent to China for installation, or is the motor assembled here?
I'm sure brush hardware is being modified somewhere to accommodate the larger "American" comm. Is there better quality control in the setup too?

The 4007 motors are assembled in the USA by Pro Slot. Our club ordered 100 and was told it would take 5-6 days to build that many motors before shipping.
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#35 swodem

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 10:54 PM

The 4007 motors are assembled in the USA by Pro Slot. Our club ordered 100 and was told it would take 5-6 days to build that many motors before shipping.


Then I guess you could request e/bell be glued in place....


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#36 MSwiss

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 11:28 PM

The 4007 motors are assembled in the USA by Pro Slot. Our club ordered 100 and was told it would take 5-6 days to build that many motors before shipping.

I just looked at the results from some of your races.

You need 100-$49 retail motors to support that amount of racing?

That's amazing.

Mike Swiss
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#37 Shiggy

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:00 AM

I just looked at the results from some of your races.
You need 100-$49 retail motors to support that amount of racing?
That's amazing.

Need? No.
We have more racers in the fall and winter. And the few hardcore there year round.
Twenty of the motors (not including the one I got from you) have been bought by 9 people so far. We have about 10 other regulars and a dozen more semi-regulars. At worst, we have a several year supply of motors, all from the same batch, which should keep the racing competitive.
We have a track owner that is fed up with installing and trashing more motors than he raced. Seems like we (all the racers combined) would go through several hundred H7 motors in a year. Since January I know I had already used 18 H7 motors in 4 cars for two different classes.
Our track owner is willing and able to make a bulk purchase for reliable motors and make them available to all that run at our (his) track so we can all have fun. We, the other racers, are blessed.

The Green Hornet is a privately owned, non commercial track, with racing open to anyone that wants to show up. There are no commercial tracks within 100+ miles and our greater community area has a population of fewer than 40,000.
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#38 gatormark

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 05:50 AM

Steve, did you guys glue the EB bushing before the endure?  How about changing the brushes and springs.  If you haven't seen Ron Hershmans tutorial on You Tube about the brushes and springs in these motors it's a good education, check it out.  I recently found that two of my twelve 4002FKs have arms that are rubbing the magnets.  I didn't think that would ever happen because most of those motors have a very big air gap and no the magnets didn't move.  They are still glued in tight and I also tightened the magnet tangs with snap ring pliers so they aren't moving just rubbing and they do get warm on the power supply at 5 volts.


Do you have the link for the you tube video by Ron?
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#39 Bazzie

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 03:24 PM

Just another report. In the batch I referred to in post #1 I bought 4 motors. 1 was a screamer, the other 3 ran exactly the same, pretty impressive. I held out 2 for this year’s nats, the screamer in my lmp and the normal in my f1. Both turned out to be quick, but the f1 motor developed the same go-slow issue. One moment it would go slow and then just pick up again. So I pulled off the brush gear and crimped the comm tabs with a pair of long nose pliers, re-aligned brush hoods, and it’s screaming around again. I think it might just have been that batch


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#40 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 06:15 PM

If the Comm tabs need to be crimped properly. I would think that would be a problem with the Chinese that supply the motors to ProSlot. That being the case it would be something that ProSlot should address with their Chinese suppliers. 

 

I have had the same, just slow down for no apparent reason, that some have clammed to have here. I just throw the motors in a box with all the bad Hawk 7 and retro hawk motors. I must say that box has had to be larger and larger in the past few years. I will have to take the 3 newer ones that I have that JUST SLOWED DOWN and see if re-crimping the comm tabs corrects the problem. Even if it does the motors will still be junk as the seals will be ruined.

 

Lets see 3 failed 13.95 motors = 41.85 for a few dollars more I could have had at 4007. That other Retro Org. now allows the 4002fk and the 4007's to run together as do some Flexi rules.

 

Regards,

Greg VanPeenen 



#41 swodem

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:53 PM

Yep the 4007 is the motor everyone wants for the 4002 price

Seems very few feel there is value there because

1. The motor life will far outlast the seal, making it expensive scrap

2. Remove the seal (if rules allowed) and you’re back to blueprinted, super balanced and who-knows-what being done, and expensive aftermarket versions being offered

3. Make it rebuildable by Proslot and you’re back to puppy dog expense and ‘motor programs’

4. The magnets can’t be rezapped by anyone really (ok just a very select few)

So it need a better more permanent seal if it’s to ever stand a chance




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#42 MSwiss

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:02 PM

I think guys use nail polish for more durability.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

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#43 swodem

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:12 PM

Why is everything double—posting for me!?
Is it a Slotbog issue or Tapatalk issue?


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#44 Fast Freddie

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Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:43 PM

I use clear nail polish but even a double coat doesn't prevent the seal from coming off.  I know some organizations allow a certain percentage of seal loss or can screw exposure.


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#45 Bazzie

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:37 AM

I coat the seal with thin cyano, much stronger


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#46 swodem

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:37 AM

Yep trick is finding something strong that doesn’t upset the seal or the ink


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#47 MSwiss

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:57 AM

I coat the seal with thin cyano, much stronger


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Crazy glue?

I would think it would smoke, giving off cyanide fumes, when you solder the motor in.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#48 Bazzie

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:59 AM

Haven’t noticed any while soldering. Usually gasses out while setting. Having said that, 2weeks ago I got a severe allergic reaction to Cyano kicker...


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#49 swodem

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 05:00 AM

Crazy glue?

I would think it would smoke, giving off cyanide fumes, when you solder the motor in.


...so keep some amyl nitrate handy!!


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#50 gatormark

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 05:02 AM

Picture of com tab please?
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