23 replies to this topic

[Tim Neja]

We've never gotten any Can-Am Plus going out here at BPR – and I think it's because they are way too close in performance to our standard Can-Am cars!?  

 

What if – we put the new Phoenix motors in these babies and allowed the slightly higher downforce bodies similar to RetroPro?? These cars being inline and with a little more downforce would be ballistic but also still be fun to drive!!  

 

Anyone interested in trying this out?? Just a thought!!  

[John Streisguth]

IRRA Can-Am Plus does allow the use of the same bodies as RetroPro. They started out using the 4002FK motors which gave them a bit more speed than the regular Can-Ams, but now they use the same motors. 

 

I like the idea of using the Phoenix motor.

[MSwiss]

I've thought of the same thing.

I just wonder if the gears will hold up.

I doubt they would, for the guys that run a lot of lash.

[Jason Holmes]

We are going to run Can-Am Plus at the CPC in Jan before RetroPro using the 4002FK it has been approved by Bryan. Will see if it makes RP a bit cleaner. If set up right we should run in the 3.6s.

 

jason 

[Tim Neja]

The 4002 just isn't fast enough to be interesting!! That's been the ongoing problem with these cars!! They just aren't exciting enough and faster than the Can-Am cars!!  

 

The Phoenix would really light these cars up!!

[Noose]

Most CAP cars here are typically 15 grams lighter than the IRRA legal Can-Am. Thus they are more close to the weight run in SCRRA. That is the reason you see more of a closeness in times between the two out there.

At RP most geared 10/26 or 10/27.

[Jason Holmes]

Tim ,

 

Have you ever Ran a Can-Am Plus race? Why not try it once before you start bashing it please.

 

jason

[Tim Neja]

I have driven one – and I'm not bashing it – just reporting the facts!! They aren't fast enough over our Can-Am cars to be attractive. I'm saying – put Phoenix motors in them and make them exciting!! Then you might get some participation!

[Half Fast]

Can Am +++ cars may be quite a handful with the Phoenix motor!

 

Cheers

[Mark Wampler]

Looks to me that CAP cars are already more interesting even with the PS conventional motor as opposed to another FK motor.   Another couple of tenths faster is interesting enough since speed is relative.  There is a case for the growing popularity of the PS motor.  We already have plenty of Retro Hawks and TSR's on the tracks.  From my understanding, the Phoenix motor would be more well suited for LMP.

[JimF]

I don't have personal experience with the Phoenix but a couple of guys at Motown in Modesto ran them as an experiment last Friday night in their Flexi nascar race. Their take was....yes, it's stupid fast but so torquey that's it was a little hard to drive. Seems like it could work on a punchbowl track but might take a fair bit of development on other types of tracks.

 

The drag guys like 'em for sure.

[boxerdog]

Just to add a bit to that, they are really harder to drive slow. We ran them in our usual breakout format, and they need a lot more choke than our normal Big Dogs. And they are still pretty abrupt but mine ran well, didn't get too hot and makes a very good inexpensive option.

 

I did break out a lot before I got my controller right and got used to the toggle switch power delivery. So let's just say they handle well on the straightaways!

[Tim Neja]

Looks to me that CAP cars are already more interesting even with the PS conventional motor as opposed to another FK motor.   Another couple of tenths faster is interesting enough since speed is relative.  There is a case for the growing popularity of the PS motor.  We already have plenty of Retro Hawks and TSR's on the tracks.  From my understanding, the Phoenix motor would be more well suited for LMP.

Well the class has been around for two years---and NO ONE at BPR has really been interested in racing them!  Not bashing anything ---BUT--it they were exciting--we'd be racing them!! Where's yours Mark???

[Tim Wilkins]

Another $200-300 car that gets raced 2-3 times a year?  Not likely to happen.  The biggest issue is leadership.  Bryan already works his butt off at all our events so cross him off the list.  Right now Tim, you are the leading candidate to run this class if and when it happens     I do like the Phoenix motor and would like to see them in our RetroPro cars someday.

[MSwiss]

Again, I think it's a great idea, but before anyone goes all in on this, they should confirm the gears will hold up.

Some may remember that the attempts to use JK 64P crown gears, on a Retro car, didn-t work.

Obviously, you would be using 48P, but with a much, much more powerful/torquey motor, than a Puppy Dog.

[bbr]

The issue for me is that a powerful motor destroys a retro chassis really good.
Better left for the spring steel chassis

[Bill from NH]

Some of the BPR retro racers once used Sonic aluminum crown gears originally made for drag racing. I believe they were 64 pitch.

[MSwiss]

Jay Kisling tried to use those at the first Sano, on his flat track car.

 

They lasted 1-2 heats and he dropped out.

[Mark Wampler]

Well the class has been around for two years---and NO ONE at BPR has really been interested in racing them!  Not bashing anything ---BUT--it they were exciting--we'd be racing them!! Where's yours Mark???

 

I have to agree with Tim. Bryan has far too much on his plate.  BP already has an excellent race program, so if you get blessed with starting your own thing, it may or may not have the endorsement of SCRRA.   I don't see this motor as being inline friendly

[Tim Neja]

Why is suddenly Bryan involved?  I'm just trying to stir up interest in a DEAD class!! It could be run on Friday IF there is interest.  Lot's of naysayers about anything suggested is always interesting with slot racers!! If it's different--it must be BAD!!

[Jason Holmes]

Bryan will not have to do a thing for this race if it is ran it will go off before the RP race at the CPC the cars handle close to RP's but are 3-4 .10 slower it makes for a good warm much like GT12 before Euro Sport most of us all ready have a chassis laying around (Can-am) you put 600-625 fronts on lower the axle mount an RP body and your ready to Play 

 

One of the reasons RP is cleaner back east is because of this Race more track time with a little bit slower car 

 

jason

 

PS this not happening at the WSC I already have a full field that are on board the more the merrier 

[Bryan Warmack]

      I told Jason that as long as he gets Craig's blessing the SCRRA doesn't really care what they do later Friday afternoon on the King track which is basically "Retro Pro time". By "RP time" I mean anything after the 3PM we normally switch the King track to the higher Retro Pro power twice a year at the Checkpoint and the Summer Western Classic. The regular SCRRA Retro racers of F1 and Can Am who aren't racing on the Flat track will have all morning and the early afternoon to get in their normal Friday practice on the King track and you guys can run whatever you want after this time.  

[Tim Neja]

Tonight after the flexi race on the flat track--Dennis Samson had a nice Can Am + car running a Phoenix motor on the King track!! It showed great promise--geared 9/26 with standard pink crown and angled pinion--it didn't seem to have any problems handing the torque.  It wasn't really hooked up yet--the track was really dirty and running wonder medium tires was not enough bite!! But he did manage to cruise in the 4.1's on Blue lane---with the car hooked up I'm sure these babies would be down in the 3.6-7 range and maybe quicker.  Seems they would be FUN to drive and drive them you would need to do.  It would make a "tweener" car right between the Can Am running 3.8's and the Retro Pros running 3.2's which is what I surmised.  I'm not saying try to jam it into our Summer Classic--maybe have an experimental race on one of our weekends.  But it would be fun to see what they would do.

[S.O. Watt]

If you schedule a CA+ race, I'll send a loaner down for S&Gs.