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#26 swodem

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 04:04 PM

I’m yet to see a tangible speed difference/advantage in anyone’s controller

And I have tried a fair few!!


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#27 Tim Neja

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 05:05 PM

It’s called competition until there is no one to compete against.


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Exactly Tony---even F1 has spending limits in the real world!  But slot racing manufacturer's  will  always be ready to KILL ITSELF with unlimited spending and then "wonder" where the participants went??  Any wonder why Retro is the best growth we've seen in decades?? Maybe it's because you can compete on a budget and don't have to have the deepest pockets!!! 


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#28 swodem

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 05:28 PM

Retro.
Popular because of its relatively slow speed.
And because it’s a chassis builders class that suits all the old chassis builders out there. Forget flash controllers you can buy, if you don’t have a well built chassis you’re sunk.

Of no interest to motor builders, the best these guys can do is argue over the best detergent to run in a submerged motor in.







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#29 Phil Beukema

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 05:50 PM

 the best these guys can do is argue over the best detergent to run in a submerged motor in.

 

 

That is hilarious!  :laugh2:       Thanks for the laugh Steve.... :heat:


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#30 bbr

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:53 PM

you still need a lot of cheap motors to find a fast one. a fast one will get you in the A main. and that still requires $$$.

 

thats why the handout races were created.

 

so then you end up trying a lot of chassis and the chassis are constantly being developed, a year old chassis is not going to cut it.

having the right tire for that days conditions, etc, etc... so you end up still spending $, speed cost $

 

in the beginning retro may have been cheap, not so theses days if you what to get to the A main.

 

I especially need the speed that $ can buy, because my driving talent, or lack of, leaves a couple of tenths on the track, LOL

 

so if a $1k controller can make me faster, it is a relative cheap price...


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#31 Rob Voska

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 08:43 PM

My post pointing out the above issue was deleted..........  days ago........

 

(Gosh I hope this makes it past the sensors)



#32 MSwiss

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 08:52 PM

Yep, it was deleted because it had nothing to do with the preceding post, at the time.

It was just you bringing up your repetitive, ax to grind, anti-sealed motor narrative, in a random post, and certainly wasn't answering the OP's, "Does anyone have an opinion on the $1,000 Kobis controllers?"
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Mike Swiss
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#33 BrettC

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 06:22 AM

I’m yet to see a tangible speed difference/advantage in anyone’s controller
And I have tried a fair few!!
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Totally agree, I've got a mate who can beat the best of them with a 25Ohm resistor controller with only adjustable brakes, in most classes of flat track racing.

And that Kobis is over $1300 in real ( Australian ) money!
Brett Chalmers

#34 bbr

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 11:16 AM

Sure, we can put a limit on controller cost and technology.

But where do you stop?

If you run a Tony P chassis, because it handles so good, we will limit that chassis with three wheels.

Ok, Duran and Dale you guys have too much talent, you have to drive with one eye closed

And most importantly, everyone has to spot me 50 laps, 😁
Mike Low
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#35 swodem

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 02:00 PM

I don’t think you place any limits on equipment based on $$

You just limit any technology or feature via rules

For instance, you may ban chokes. Whether electronic or wire-wrapped tin cans.

Or you may ban anti-brakes.

The Kobis might just be an expensive controller due to the components it uses and country it’s made in. If someone wants to buy and use it - and there isn’t a feature that changes the game - let them.

You won’t be the best violinist just because you can afford a Strad...



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#36 Tim Neja

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 05:41 PM

Well Bryan Warmack seems to be VERY competitive with his chassis--and he has not built anything new for himself in over 4 years!!  I don't see much "development" any more in chassis--it's not necessary to run to the next thing you see. It IS necessary to get a good handling chassis and DRIVE it very well. It doesn't cost a lot to build your own chassis--and there's been several new guys at BPR recently that have done just that and are competing successfully.  Jim Lane most recently comes to mind.  He's made several podiums using his own builds.  The FUN part of retro IS the building--- that's what it's designed for.  If you don't like that--go Flexi racing.    I just don't see WHY we think spending so much $$$ is important for toy racing. It certainly doesn't help bring new people into the hobby,   And as long as there's no limits on that--we will continue to see people drop out of our hobby.  Spend away--then like Tony P said--eventually there won't be any competition!  No one left.


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She's real fine, my 409!!!

#37 MSwiss

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 05:51 PM

Of minor note, Tim, Bryan won the 2 flat track races, this past weekend, with Tony P chassis.

 

http://slotblog.net/...18/#entry725813

 

Retro racing can be cheap, but most guys make it more expensive, because they have the money, and like the excitement of trying new things.

 

No different than a woman who buys a new dress, although she has plenty of beautiful ones, in her closet.

 

And compared to other hobbies, like 1/1 car racing, R/C racing, Rolex watch juggling, etc., it is cheap, even when you spend.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#38 bbr

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 07:13 PM

"No different than a woman who buys a new dress, although she has plenty of beautiful ones, in her closet."

 

ha ha 

my GF just spent my $3K at Nordstrom's Anniversary Sale, there goes my $1k controller, LOL

 

 

btw Jim Lane has got all of Sam R's secrets, LOL

 

no offense to Jim, because he drives well and works hard

and helps all the racers

 

 

oh, you got to spent $$$ to keep the tracks and manufactures in business!!!

 

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Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#39 Tim Neja

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 11:20 PM

Yes Mike--and he ran LESS laps then he has with his 5 year old Flat track car.  I was referring to his King Track cars---he hasn't built any new ones for himself in over 4 years.  He does race other cars for people--Like Tony P--or Tom Hansen. He likes to see what the other side has.  But not because he isn't competitive with his OLD cars---just for fun!!


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#40 bbr

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 12:16 AM

this is what Bryan has said, he is losing a tenth some where on the track, he drove one of Duran's car, Duran can drive that car a tenth faster.

 

Bryan will figure out where he is losing that tenth soon enough, but he is not going to beat Dale, Duran, Alex, Sam with "old" equipment. believe me, Bryan is a racer, he likes winning

 

Dale, Duran, Alex are not going to falloff the track and Sam has the best setup cars on the king

 

retro has mature and it has become more costly, you can't roll back the clock

 

you have to work harder... Dale, Duran, Sam certainly are

 

we have no weight limit on the left coast, so if you have a light  car that handles, you be fast!

a 100 gram min will pull back the chassis development, but we have stuck to no min so chassis are being developed . only a handful of guys build and out of that, half of  them can do a winning chassis.

and a higher DF body will also pull back the chassis development but "we" want low DF bodies, so we reap what we sow

 

personally, I  would like to see both coast have the same rules, so it would be easier to travel for all racers that like to travel. does it matter that much what the rules are?

"we" left coast encourage chassis development so we do, but as faster designs come out you will be left in the dust if you are running old stuff, so we are constantly spending $ on the most expensive item of the car. so if anything is reducing participation, that is mostly the likely cause.

the group of guys that started retro out here were chassis builders, almost most of them don't race anymore. should we not update the rule set for the current crop of racers, that are mostly not chassis builders?

 

something has to change. right coast guys don't come anymore, tokyo racers have not come for awhile. 

our fast guys go back east to the big races.

when I first started retro , the Ck Point was the "it" race, it seems to me that it is not the "it" race anymore :(

 

 

but I'm wandering off the subject and may be deleted,  lol


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Mike Low
Cry like a baby, drive like a girl, walk like a man.
Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#41 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 06:08 AM

Mike, what you write makes sense. Keep it up!

 

I haven't seen John Cukras' name listed in the past few BPR race reports. Has he taken a break from slot racing or else have some health issues?


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#42 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 06:56 PM

West Coast guys are really weird. OK with out of date SLOW bodies that don't look anything like a real TI-22. Better bodies sure have not slowed down chassis development in the Midwest or on the East Coast. Ok with $1,000.00 controllers which may  or may not help on a flat road course. But most likely wouldn't do crap on the high speed King track they run on. Against an $8.00 guide which has been proven to help make the cars faster. No wonder they can't decide if the want to live in one state or divide it into three.

 

I always check out Bryan's race reports and it seems to me the car weight is starting to climb.  It's getting close to that dreaded 100 gram mark those backward people in the wrest of the world use.

 

What's next banning nickle plated wire because it cost more.

 

I know it's your sand box so if you want to crap in it you will.

 

Regards,

Greg VanPeenen. 


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#43 Jim Difalco

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 07:35 PM

I've seen one in person, it is a very well made controller, many of the components are surface mounted.

But too many knobs... more knobs equals higher price, LOL

 

 

Why didn't I think of this! So if I add two more knobs to my top of the line $328 unit I can charge $800 or so? I will get right on it.

 

 

Duran seems to be doing just fine with my standard 2 knob design.


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#44 Mike K

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:01 PM

More knobs close the gap between Duran's skill and the results the rest of us dream about.....or some might think. :)


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So much DRAMA for such small cars....
Mike Kravitz

Don't DQ me for having the wrong SHADE of orange on my McLaren... after all, it's ONLY a toy car!!!


#45 John Streisguth

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 04:08 PM

Mike L: the bodies the rest of the Retro world uses are not THAT much higher in downforce...it's not like they are GTP bodies.  Has anyone out there actually done a back to back comparison?  IMO, the idea they would hold back chassis development is nonsense, none of the so-called "restrictions" the IRRA has has slowed down chassis development any more than the "freedoms" at BPR have driven them.  If anything, I have seen more true "new" ideas out of Retro Tokyo, and they run IRRA rules.

 

My apologies for thread drift...no problem if the mods decide to delete this, just wanted to express my feelings on the subject.


"Whatever..."

#46 swodem

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:48 PM

 
 
Why didn't I think of this! So if I add two more knobs to my top of the line $328 unit I can charge $800 or so? I will get right on it.
 .


If said knobs did something unique you might actually be right!




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#47 tonyp

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:50 PM

You need to install a Duran knob.


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