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Motor build for Open racing


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#1 Slot-Racer

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 12:37 PM

Greetings,

 

I am looking to build a Open motor for a King Track. Will be running a 30 turn of 26 gauge wire armature. Looking for fastest speed build that will go into a C-Can, but looking for what magnets to get? I know Cobalt is the fastest one's to use but what is one step down from that? I order from PCH a lot and was wondering what to get? I'm suspicious the Neo are the next best but I was wondering about the quad magnets too? This is an open motor build so there are no rules.

 

Snap3.jpg

Snap2.jpg

Snap4.jpg

 

I'm also open to any suggestions on what C-Can to use?

 

Thank you.


Mario Damis




#2 havlicek

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 12:45 PM

Hi Mario,

I don't think (but sure can be wrong) there are any commonly-available cobalts, either singles or multiples to fit the C-can. Of the ceramics, the quads have been measurably stronger than the singles from what I've seen... but...stronger doesn't mean they will make for a faster motor, or even faster lap times.

 

Always look to racers who run these things (and track owners who also are... or have been racers, like Mike Swiss) for the best recommendations. 

 

Even still, there will be a bewildering number of variables to take into consideration.


John Havlicek

#3 Slot-Racer

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 12:51 PM

Hi John,

 

Hope you are doing well and thank you for replying, I thought you would. :D

 

Cobalts exist but they are out of stock so looking for next best thing?

 

Cobalt.jpg

 

I'm sure there are many things out there, but I am limited to only what I posted as they are in stock. I've read about T-5 magnets but know the quad stuff is used also but not if it fits application wise for this armature and or how it compares to the neo ones. I hope Mike can chime in eventually. 

 

Thanks.  :)


Mario Damis

#4 Pablo

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 02:16 PM

Why aren't you simply using an Open (G7) can for an Open class motor? :unknw: :scratch_one-s_head:


Paul Wolcott

#5 MSwiss

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 02:23 PM

 I order from PCH a lot and was wondering what to get?

 

(and track owners who also are... or have been racers, like Mike Swiss) for the best recommendations.

 

I hope Mike can chime in eventually.

 

Probably, your best bet is to inquire from where you purchase your product.

 

Check with Scott to see what runs best at his "raceway."


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#6 havlicek

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 02:50 PM

Cobalts exist but they are out of stock so looking for next best thing?

 

attachicon.gifCobalt.jpg

 

I'm sure there is many things out there, but I am limited to only what I posted as they are in stock. I've read about T-5 magnets but know the quad stuff is used also but not if it fits application wise for this armature and or how it compares to the neo ones. I hope Mike can chime in eventually. 

 

I looked at those myself a while back and think they may be either "vaporware" (a product that has been advertised but never came to market) or a long-discontinued item. No one else seems to be selling any sort of cobalt magnets for C-cans... not that something couldn't be cobbled together for C-cans, just that it isn't out there.


John Havlicek

#7 Slot-Racer

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 03:07 PM

Why aren't you simply using an Open (G7) can for an Open class motor? :unknw: :scratch_one-s_head:

 

Can you recommend one that is around $50?


Mario Damis

#8 Pablo

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 03:18 PM

I'm looking at the website you mentioned and I see three Koford Open cans for under $50.

 

Why don't you just call Swiss and tell him what you need? That way you get pro advice and good service with one phone call.  :)


Paul Wolcott

#9 Slot-Racer

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 03:20 PM

I'm looking at the website you mentioned and I see three Koford Open cans for under $50.

 

Link me...? and what magnets to use with them?


Mario Damis

#10 Pablo

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 03:29 PM

(708) 203-8003


Paul Wolcott

#11 Slot-Racer

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 03:34 PM

OK, thank you.


Mario Damis

#12 elvis44102

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 09:20 PM

Just a suggestion... I never post a phone number just in case one of those Russki net bots gets a hold of it... try seven-oh-3-two-oh-three-800-three or some such readable variant.


John Wisneski

#13 LindsayB

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 04:11 AM

I guess the question not asked is how many laps do you want to do and why a C-can - I know at the Barnburner they had a competition for the fasted lap time on a motor based on a Hawk  - think it ran something like 1.6. 


Lindsay Byron

#14 MSwiss

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 07:36 AM

I'm looking at the website you mentioned and I see three Koford Open cans for under $50.

 

Why don't you just call Swiss and tell him what you need? That way you get pro advice and good service with one phone call.  :)

 

Thanks for the ref, but I would rather not get involved.

A - I'm not a fan of "Let's buy a funny car to get groceries."

B - I'm even less of a fan when the person isn't capable. He PM'd me and couldn't articulate adequately what issue he was having, where he couldn't keep his car in the slot.

C - All of the above should be taken care of where he is running his car.

The raceway owner should be helping him out, and in turn, he should be doing all he can to give said raceway owner the opportunity to get in, and sell him the parts he needs.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#15 Racer36

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 07:46 AM

A funny car to get groceries....hmmmm...

Dennis Dominey

Lifelong half-assed slot racer


#16 Pablo

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 08:07 AM

I'm still dying to know what the logic is using the wrong can for an Open class motor.  :scratch_one-s_head:


Paul Wolcott

#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:12 AM

Maybe not the best can now, but not a wrong can. All of my open class motors are C-cans, built in '70s. Perhaps Mario is building a retro/vintage open class car. After all, he's only winding a 26 ga. arm. But he hasn't given enough info in post #1 for us to determine what he's building. :)


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#18 Slot-Racer

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:12 AM

Maybe not the best can now, but not a wrong can. All of my open class motors are C-cans, built in '70s. Perhaps Mario is building a retro/vintage open class car. After all, he's only winding a 26 ga. arm. But he hasn't given enough info in post #1 for us to determine what he's building. :)

 

Thank you, Bill. You are the most polite on this site as John. I won't post publically anymore nor IM anyone who appears to be rude or two-faced. I will be sure to let others know that's the case here on this forum. Moderators take note. I thought the idea of a public forum was to help people not criticize which seems to keep happening here and in other posts from others from the same people. There seems to be a "group" of people here that oversee everything and if you don't conform to set rules or logic it's impossible and not to be done and you are dogged. 

 

And to Mike, thanks for your rudeness, it's noted. I will not refer anyone to you nor to your products as I don't ever want to support anyone that is rude in any form or fashion, and for the record I did explain what happened. Issue resolved, track was dirty, nothing was wrong with the car nor how it was set up.

 

Just so the inquiring minds (Pablo), yes, I did put a C-can in an aluminum chassis and the car flies and hauls ***. Why? Because I already had all the parts, cost also, and if I can put an open motor that costs me $38 and in a chassis that I got already for steal for $30 (yes, a Beuf light aluminum) and keep up with a local racer that runs a G27 who is paying through the nose for everything I'm stoked regardless of right or wrong, etc. I've spoken to Pro Slot who is way more understanding what I'm doing and gave me more friendly guidance so I don't need anyone's rude advice or opinions here anymore. I see why it's said this hobby is dying or dead now. It's the people also that contribute to it. (See above posts if you are confused)

 

I'm done, thanks to all that were willing to be kind and helpful you are what makes good people in this world.

 

Take care.


Mario Damis

#19 Dallas Racer

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:30 PM

Don't let the cranky members get to you, Mario. If you do, they win. And you miss out on the pleasant members, which are the vast majority. You don't want that.

 

I think some of the members have some of those gay midget porn sex tapes that Greg starred in in the '70s. It's the only way to explain his turning a blind eye to some of the stuff that goes on here.  :laugh2:  ;)


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#20 Slot-Racer

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:37 PM

You are so right!  :laugh2: You made me laugh. Thank you, I totally needed that!
Mario Damis

#21 jimht

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:51 PM

I would follow Pro Slot's advice for a mild wind like a 26 gauge.

 

But keep in mind, C-can Opens were not running in chopped-up-made-for-Gp12-armatures-cans in the '70s and certainly used magnets that were longer and more manly than the short stuff available now.

 

The drag racers now are using cans and magnets probably more akin to what we used then.

 

On the other hand, as you discovered, in a new style lighter wing car, fun can be had without installing a boat anchor in the back.

 

Just be careful with the glue and remember, Opens are usually not happy when made to run for more than 5 minutes at a time.


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#22 Slot-Racer

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:58 PM

Yes, yes and yes. I only run about 20 laps and I'm done. The motor runs very cool geared at 9/44 72p.

Thank you for your advice and post.  :)


Mario Damis

#23 Half Fast

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 01:10 PM

A cheaper alternative that's quite fast is the Phoenix sealed motor.

 

Cheers,


Bill Botjer

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#24 Cheater

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 02:52 PM

I think some of the members have some of those gay midget porn sex tapes that Greg starred in in the '70s. It's the only way to explain his turning a blind eye to some of the stuff that goes on here.  :laugh2:  ;)

 

No, the correct way to explain it is to understand that the day is long gone when I could read every thread and post here at Slotblog.

I also tend to pass over threads where I really don't feel able to contribute in a knowledgeable way.

And I trust the ever-vigilant mod team to alert me when I need to step in, which is what occurred here, actually. Other "cranky members," did you mean to say? LOL...

BTW, you don't have any of those tapes, do you? I've lost my copies and can't actually remember anything on them (although it's kinda like that old saying  – "If you remember the '60s, you weren't there."


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#25 MSwiss

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 03:24 PM

And to Mike, thanks for your rudeness, it's noted. I will not refer anyone to you nor to your products as I don't ever want to support anyone that is rude in any form or fashion, and for the record I did explain what happened. Issue resolved, track was dirty, nothing was wrong with the car nor how it was set up.

 

Mario,

 

You open up your thread with making a point about supporting a non-raceway. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to suggest you go to them for technical advice. Or in the case where you weren't satisfied with how your car was going around the track at BP.

 

Why send a PM to me? Not my product. I didn't sell it to you.

 

Somebody opened the door, and let you in, at BP. Why not ask them... when you are there and experiencing the problem?

 

They can see your car go around. I can't.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516






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