35 replies to this topic

[nzoomed]

Ive got a bunch of mabuchi 16D motors im going to rebuild that are in bits and most have worn bushes on the can and endbell.

 

For the motors that have a larger brass bushing it looks fairly straightforward to ream it out for a 5mm bearing like this:

https://www.ebay.com...R2TW1:rk:5:pf:0

 

But what is commonly used on the earlier 16D motors with a smaller bushing that was typically very poorly pressed into the end of the can?

Would also like to replace the bushings on these endbells, but they typically had a much thinner neck and look like the bushings were quite small that were moulded into the plastic.

 

Are small bushings available or do you have to machine them yourself?

I dont expect replacements are readily available since these were never designed to be replaced.

Are the 5mm bearings ive posted in the link the smallest OD available?

I cant seem to see anything smaller than 5mm, so im guessing that I will just have to put bushings back in these worn endbells.

 

Other option is use an aftermarket endbell such as this tradeship one, but they are very pricey.

https://www.electric...are-p-5212.html

Dont know if there are other ones available at a much better price, but it looks like i could upgrade it to a BB.

For later 16D motors such as the 160, this looks like a perfect upgrade, but dont know what brush hoods are suitable and if these will fit a 5mm bearing?

https://www.professo...t-p/mot1659.htm

[mreibman]

Can you get one out and measure it?
Need ID, OD, and height.

smallest 2mm ID bushings I have were from koford, 4mm OD, used on int 15 strap feather motors in 90's. I have some new ones. More common are 5mm and 6mm OD. 5 and 6 available as bearings, but have yet to find 4mm OD.

For boring them out, if you go that route, a metric step drill bit should make it easier for the can. YMMV for the endbells.

In the 80's we took Manucho 36d motors, changed them over to use mura brushes, and installed ball bearings, but not a clue as to sizes, as I didn't do the work personally.

[havlicek]

 

Ive got a bunch of mabuchi 16D motors im going to rebuild that are in bits and most have worn bushes on the can and endbell.

 

For the motors that have a larger brass bushing it looks fairly straightforward to ream it out for a 5mm bearing like this:

https://www.ebay.com...R2TW1:rk:5:pf:0

 

You can fit either a 5mm OD or a 6mm bearing in the can end.  It's not a bad idea to (after removing the rotating bushing and brass-retainer) to first solder-in the remaining brass carrier on the inside only...you can alternately epoxy it in...but first make sure the mating surfaces are clean and dry).  

***It's a little more tedious, but rather than drill-out the hole, a tapered hand-ream will do a really good job of keeping the hole centered on the original axis.
https://www.ebay.com...77463818&chn=ps

 

 

Are small bushings available or do you have to machine them yourself?

I dont expect replacements are readily available since these were never designed to be replaced.

I've not seen replacement bushings for these.  You can actually "tighten-up" worn bushings enough to improve the fit to the armature shaft, but it's hit or miss and you'd need to experiment some to figure out a way to do this.  You can also purchase oilite or sintered metal oil-impregnated rod for machining your own, but it's really expensive...I think around $20 for six inches of 1/2".  Any bushing produced this way would not have the ribbed OD, and making it slightly oversized would probably open-up any cracks in the end bell plastic.  Either way, you'd have to figure out a way to solidly locate the replacement bushing.  This in itself means several steps.  I've figured out a way to do this, look for any of my posts that talk about "keying" the bushing in place.  This becomes necessary because not only are almost all of these end bells cracked at this critical area, but the material can not be reliably bonded to...even with the best epoxy and/or CA glue.  The general thought had been that this crack, while not visually appealing, really didn't cause any issues.  That is NOT the case, and with any significant track time, the problem gets worse to the point of causing everything from bad gear mesh to motor failure.  Of course, that problem is multiplied with any rewind (*even a mild one) faster than the anemic stock wind.
 

 

Are the 5mm bearings ive posted in the link the smallest OD available?

I cant seem to see anything smaller than 5mm, so im guessing that I will just have to put bushings back in these worn endbells.

5mm OD is the smallest 2mm ID bearing from any regular supplier.  Also, there is so little material on those end bells, *and many/most/all have a crack in the area that holds the bushing as it is, reaming out the plastic would be a very bad idea.  There are brass bushing straps available for screwing into the two existing end bell mounting holes, and a 5mm bearing could be soldered in to the strap, which would then be mounted to the end bell.  This makes cutting off the entire area where the bushing is mounted necessary...as well as makes actually mounting the motor a mess (*although slightly less-so with can-drive).

 

 

Other option is use an aftermarket endbell such as this tradeship one, but they are very pricey.

https://www.electric...are-p-5212.html

They ARE expensive now, and not really any better in any meaningful way than the Mabuchi.

 

 

 

Dont know if there are other ones available at a much better price, but it looks like i could upgrade it to a BB

The only other older option would be the Champion 16D end bell (*shown in your last link), but lately I've only seen them sold "bare" with no hardware.  They also have a wider bushing strap that makes them difficult to mount to some chassis.  The Tradeship is dimensionally the same as the Mabuchi, and can NOT accept a 5mm bearing.  The Champion, with it's beefier bushing strap and recess CAN accept a bearing...either the approximately .250" Mabuchi Champion one (*garbage), or a 5mm or 6mm OD modern bearing with a sleeve to adapt it to the larger hole.

The slightly later Hong Kong-produced FT160 end bell will also work and is close to the Champion one, and is made of a MUCH better material.

[SlotStox#53]

So the Tradeship endbells are not any better than the Mabuchi candle wax ones? Thought reading on here they were at least a step/grade up on the meltdown ladder

[havlicek]

So the Tradeship endbells are not any better than the Mabuchi candle wax ones? Thought reading on here they were at least a step/grade up on the meltdown ladder

 

I had seen that said also Paul.  I took a beat Mabuchi and a beat Tradeship, put them in my toaster oven and started turning the heat up slowly, and both melted at very nearly the same temperature.  The Tradeship end bell comes with the "Pentroof" hardware , which is a step up though.

[Pablo]

And he won't need to trim his nose hair until the year 2110.

[olescratch]

  @JH:  When speaking of the end bell straps, can they be purchased, or do you have to fabricate your own?

[havlicek]

  @JH:  When speaking of the end bell straps, can they be purchased, or do you have to fabricate your own?

 

Either way John.  They were sold and of course you can make your own.

[nzoomed]

Can you get one out and measure it?
Need ID, OD, and height.

smallest 2mm ID bushings I have were from koford, 4mm OD, used on int 15 strap feather motors in 90's. I have some new ones. More common are 5mm and 6mm OD. 5 and 6 available as bearings, but have yet to find 4mm OD.

For boring them out, if you go that route, a metric step drill bit should make it easier for the can. YMMV for the endbells.

In the 80's we took Manucho 36d motors, changed them over to use mura brushes, and installed ball bearings, but not a clue as to sizes, as I didn't do the work personally.

I will have to measure the width of the endbell and get back, but it looks very close to 5mm width of plastic. I might be able to get away with a 4mm on these earlier motors. Also my hit 1000 motors (i think they are made by riko) have a very narrow endbell.

With the later mabuchi motors, it looks fairly easy as the endbell takes a much larger bushing.

[nzoomed]

So the Tradeship endbells are not any better than the Mabuchi candle wax ones? Thought reading on here they were at least a step/grade up on the meltdown ladder

Well this is good to know, but im only really trying to find a replacement that is similar to the original endbells that these motors had. Some of them have either got worn bushes or have been abused with the soldering iron over the years(not by me lol).

 

 

You can fit either a 5mm OD or a 6mm bearing in the can end.  It's not a bad idea to (after removing the rotating bushing and brass-retainer) to first solder-in the remaining brass carrier on the inside only...you can alternately epoxy it in...but first make sure the mating surfaces are clean and dry).  

***It's a little more tedious, but rather than drill-out the hole, a tapered hand-ream will do a really good job of keeping the hole centered on the original axis.
https://www.ebay.com...77463818&chn=ps

OK thats good to know. 5mm seems to be the most common size that I see, so probably will go with that. Was not sure if a tapered reamer would be able to start with such a small hole, but thats good to know

 

 

I've not seen replacement bushings for these.  You can actually "tighten-up" worn bushings enough to improve the fit to the armature shaft, but it's hit or miss and you'd need to experiment some to figure out a way to do this.  You can also purchase oilite or sintered metal oil-impregnated rod for machining your own, but it's really expensive...I think around $20 for six inches of 1/2".  Any bushing produced this way would not have the ribbed OD, and making it slightly oversized would probably open-up any cracks in the end bell plastic.  Either way, you'd have to figure out a way to solidly locate the replacement bushing.  This in itself means several steps.  I've figured out a way to do this, look for any of my posts that talk about "keying" the bushing in place.  This becomes necessary because not only are almost all of these end bells cracked at this critical area, but the material can not be reliably bonded to...even with the best epoxy and/or CA glue.  The general thought had been that this crack, while not visually appealing, really didn't cause any issues.  That is NOT the case, and with any significant track time, the problem gets worse to the point of causing everything from bad gear mesh to motor failure.  Of course, that problem is multiplied with any rewind (*even a mild one) faster than the anemic stock wind.

Im only really interested in replacing the bushings on these particularity rare motors, such as the hit 1000. I dont know if anyone here knows much about them, but i think they were just marketed as that here in New Zealand anyway, but appear to look identical to a Riko rikochet motor.

Ive seen what you have done by putting a ring round the cracked endbells, that could be an option on some. Luckily for me most of mine are not cracked, but i just have to sort out what ones are unsalvageable and replace with a newer endbell .

Ive read that people are having good success with loctite in fixing bearings and bushings into the endbells, keying them in is important as you say.

 

I dont know if you have ever heard of the product called plexus https://www.jamestow...uct.do?pid=4882

but ive used this in the past to adhere plastics such as nylon that are typically difficult to adhere to.

Have not tried on a motor, but would like to do some tests on this stuff. All i know is its the best epoxy glue ive ever used. It smells the same stuff as the dentists use for composite fillings.

But yes i feel that any repairs to such a cracked endbell would need careful consideration on what wind to use. Im assuming a BB upgrade would take alot of load off the endbell compared to an oilite bushing, providing the endbell could take a bearing, otherwise i will just go with a more stock winding, having an endbell driven car is even putting more load on the bushing.
 

 

5mm OD is the smallest 2mm ID bearing from any regular supplier.  Also, there is so little material on those end bells, *and many/most/all have a crack in the area that holds the bushing as it is, reaming out the plastic would be a very bad idea.  There are brass bushing straps available for screwing into the two existing end bell mounting holes, and a 5mm bearing could be soldered in to the strap, which would then be mounted to the end bell.  This makes cutting off the entire area where the bushing is mounted necessary...as well as makes actually mounting the motor a mess (*although slightly less-so with can-drive).

Yeah I dont think I will go down that path, might consider machining some new bushes someday for these, but as i mentioned above, im only really considering this if its a rare motor that im trying to restore.

 

They ARE expensive now, and not really any better in any meaningful way than the Mabuchi.

Yeah, i cant justify the price on them, was just trying to find some replacements in black for the original mabuchis, if you have any other suggestions on whats available, let me know.
 

The only other older option would be the Champion 16D end bell (*shown in your last link), but lately I've only seen them sold "bare" with no hardware.  They also have a wider bushing strap that makes them difficult to mount to some chassis.  The Tradeship is dimensionally the same as the Mabuchi, and can NOT accept a 5mm bearing.  The Champion, with it's beefier bushing strap and recess CAN accept a bearing...either the approximately .250" Mabuchi Champion one (*garbage), or a 5mm or 6mm OD modern bearing with a sleeve to adapt it to the larger hole.

The slightly later Hong Kong-produced FT160 end bell will also work and is close to the Champion one, and is made of a MUCH better material.

 

Yes I believe the endbell on the FT160 was the best endbell made by mabuchi.

Unfortunatley ive got some missing or damaged endbells on a couple of these motors, so looks like the champion ones are the best bet?

 

What size bearing do these champion endbells take? I was reading a thread somewhere that they had to ream them out to fit a BB, but no idea what size was needed.

[havlicek]

Hi Shaun,

 

 

I dont know if you have ever heard of the product called plexus https://www.jamestow...uct.do?pid=4882

but ive used this in the past to adhere plastics such as nylon that are typically difficult to adhere to.

 

I've not heard of it, but the reviews seem to indicate people are using it to bond "plastic" to "plastic" and "plastic" to metal...but mostly fiberglass (*which is generally saturated with either a polyester or an epoxy resin...both of which are easy to bond to.  One guy said he used it on "Corian", which is really just polyester resin with color additives (*sometimes powdered mineral).  "Nylons" are extremely difficult to bond to, and while I'm sure there must be industrial type adhesives out there (*well, I think there must be anyway) that can work, I haven't seen any.  Still, have a go at it and see if you like it!

 

 

 

Im assuming a BB upgrade would take alot of load off the endbell compared to an oilite bushing

Not at all!  Bearings are still subject to the same side-loads from the gear train as a bushing.  In either inline or sidewinder/anglewinder configurations, and even with a "perfect gear mesh", the pinion and crown/spur gears will want to push away from each other as soon as the motor spins-up, creating a side force which will act directly on the part of the end bell supporting the bearing/bushing.  The cracks found in this area of the Mabuchi end bells get substantially worse because of this in no time at all under load.

 

 

Yes I believe the endbell on the FT160 was the best endbell made by mabuchi.

Unfortunatley ive got some missing or damaged endbells on a couple of these motors, so looks like the champion ones are the best bet?

 

What size bearing do these champion endbells take? I was reading a thread somewhere that they had to ream them out to fit a BB, but no idea what size was needed.

 

The Champions are OK, but the very dimensionally-similar (*or same...I forget) FT160 is better by far.  In any case, the Champion takes around a .250+" bearing or bushing, the same size as the bearings in the old 26D and some FT16D motors (*which are garbage).  Since there is no *quality* .250" OD x 2mm ID bearing available, you need to use either the Champion oilite bushing (*which is a nice tight "snap-fit") or make an adapter that's .250" OD x 5mm (or 6mm) ID to mount a bearing in the Champion end bell.

[nzoomed]

Thanks for that info John.

I will give an update regards plexus on how it performs on the endbells in due course.

As far as bushings go, I think ive found a cheap source of replacements for worn endbell bushings.

 

I bought a bunch of these motors off ebay the other day and basically look like a falcon motor, but these are made by mabuchi.

https://www.ebay.com...872.m2749.l2649

 

the bushing at the end if the can is able to be punched out and is the right size to fit in these endbells ive got, providing i can carefully ream out the worn bushing, i think these will do.

Looks like I will have to machine new bushings for my FT-16D though? Ive found a can that someone has soldered a nut on the end to be used as a bushing. Can BB's be easily installed in the earlier FT-16D that has a small bushing on the can?

I dont see an easy way myself without machining some sort of adaptor and reaming out the hole that had the poorly pressed in bushing.

[havlicek]

 

Can BB's be easily installed in the earlier FT-16D that has a small bushing on the can?

I dont see an easy way myself without machining some sort of adaptor and reaming out the hole that had the poorly pressed in bushing.

 

Those are among the easiest if all to install a bearing in.  I've shown how many many times if you look through my threads

[nzoomed]

 

Those are among the easiest if all to install a bearing in.  I've shown how many many times if you look through my threads

I was assuming you had, but had only found ones where you had reamed out the large brass bushing and inserted a bearing, that looks simple, but not so simple is the earlier FT-16 or FT-16D that is endbell driven and a small bushing pressed into the can.

[havlicek]

I was assuming you had, but had only found ones where you had reamed out the large brass bushing and inserted a bearing, that looks simple, but not so simple is the earlier FT-16 or FT-16D that is endbell driven and a small bushing pressed into the can.

 

I'll show one later today.

[Jaeger Team]

since I too have to restore several of those endbells I tried to do a search on the web and I think I'll try these oilites:

 

https://www.aliexpre....37634c4dZOAY2t

[havlicek]

Those look promising Maurizio.

Here's the basic deal on those earlier Mabuchi cans.  The bushing/bearing is a larger OD on the outside of the can than the actual hole in the can.  On the inside, the bushing is "swaged" to form a retainer inside the can metal.  So it's possible to remove the bushing from either the outside or the inside, but there's much less metal on the inside.  You just have to grind the inside of the bushing flush to the can metal, and then you can grab it from the outside and pull it off.  Once it's off, you *could* use a spare end bell bushing to replace it, but those are garbage...even when new.  Besides, who has spares anyway? 



Once the bushing is removed, use a tapered hand ream to open the hole up to either 5mm or 6mm...going slowly as you get close to the right size so you don't make an oversized/sloppy hole.  This will keep the hole well-centered on the original hole which can be a problem when using a hand drill.  Doing this will usually cause a raised burr around the rim of the hole that you can touch up to get flat.  Now you can either solder or epoxy-in a new 5mm or 6mm bushing or bearing.

[nzoomed]

since I too have to restore several of those endbells I tried to do a search on the web and I think I'll try these oilites:

 

https://www.aliexpre....37634c4dZOAY2t

They will be very useful!

I will have to measure the size of the existing bushings in these endbells, but 4mm looks like it might be the right size.

 

Those look promising Maurizio.

Here's the basic deal on those earlier Mabuchi cans.  The bushing/bearing is a larger OD on the outside of the can than the actual hole in the can.  On the inside, the bushing is "swaged" to form a retainer inside the can metal.  So it's possible to remove the bushing from either the outside or the inside, but there's much less metal on the inside.  You just have to grind the inside of the bushing flush to the can metal, and then you can grab it from the outside and pull it off.  Once it's off, you *could* use a spare end bell bushing to replace it, but those are garbage...even when new.  Besides, who has spares anyway? 



Once the bushing is removed, use a tapered hand ream to open the hole up to either 5mm or 6mm...going slowly as you get close to the right size so you don't make an oversized/sloppy hole.  This will keep the hole well-centered on the original hole which can be a problem when using a hand drill.  Doing this will usually cause a raised burr around the rim of the hole that you can touch up to get flat.  Now you can either solder or epoxy-in a new 5mm or 6mm bushing or bearing.
 

Thats helpful thanks, I was thinking along the same lines, just was unsure how well a bearing would hold without much material to support a bearing.

I was unsure if they could be soldered or not without damaging them either.

 

Ive seen some people saying they use loctite to hold bearings or bushings in the can. Epoxy is probably a good option.

 

Got a few of these motors that have damaged endbells, is there any suitable replacement that looks similar to the originals? The tradeship ones look the closest match but as mentioned, they dont appear to be high quality, and are expensive.

[havlicek]

Hi Shaun,

 

 

 

Thats helpful thanks, I was thinking along the same lines, just was unsure how well a bearing would hold without much material to support a bearing.

Well, it's a good thing to only ream the hole large enough for a nice snug fit, but the flange and some very minor epoxy around the inner radius of the hole is plenty to hold the bearing or bushing.  Just make sure the bearing/bushing and the inside of the can are clean and burr-free before epoxying...especially the bushing if that's what you're using.  The oilite material is impregnated with oil, so the outer surface should be especially clean to prevent the oil from messing up the bond.  I put epoxy around the rim/flange of the bushing/bearing and then insert it into the clean hole, using an armature shaft with a stop collar pressed onto it.  Once the bearing is seated, insert an end bell on the other side of the arm shaft to keep the new bushing'/bearing bore-aligned with the end bell center.  If you put the epoxy on the hole and then insert the bushing/bearing, there's a good chance of getting epoxy where you don't want it.  JB Weld is great for this because it won't run all over the place, and once cured is really strong.

 

 

 

I was unsure if they could be soldered or not without damaging them either.

You CAN solder them and that has been the more common method for a long time.  If soldering-in an oilite, go as quick as you can and then stop as soon as the solder flows...or MAYBE give it a quick hit with a bit more acid to be sure the joint is good.  You can quickly boil-out the oil in the bushing.  If soldering a bearing, same thing, but here the thing to avoid is cooking whatever oil is in the bearing and turning it into gritty black carbon.  Some will soak the bearing in acetone beforehand to try and remove any oil and prevent this from happening in the first place.

***In either case, you really should use acid flux when soldering anything to steel, and applying a very small amount with an artist's brush let's you be neat and precise with the stuff.  Anytime after soldering with acid, the part needs a good cleanup with a baking soda and water paste...then a thorough rinse with clean water to neutralize any acid residue.  Do this inside and out on all surfaces, because the stuff will get on every surface, especially the ones you don't think it did.  The parts you didn't neutralize and rinse will show up easily later on as rust!
 

 

 

Ive seen some people saying they use loctite to hold bearings or bushings in the can. Epoxy is probably a good option.

Me too, I wouldn't trust the stuff, but I guess (?) it must work for some.  ***Of course, in ALL cases, always install either a bushing or a bearing with the flange on the inside of the can, as extra insurance against the thing coming out or loose.  It will be trapped against the tail spacer of the armature, and can't come out...even if it comes loose.

 

 

 

Got a few of these motors that have damaged endbells, is there any suitable replacement that looks similar to the originals? The tradeship ones look the closest match but as mentioned, they dont appear to be high quality, and are expensive.

In an word...no, at least not new ones.  Don't get me wrong, the Tradeship end bells are OK, and certainly as good as the Mabuchis, plus they come with the better "Pentroof" hardware.  The Champion end bells are a little better than either the Mabuchi or the Tradeship, but they've gotten really scarce.  The Mura 16D end bells are lightyears-better than either the Mabuchi, the Tradeship or the Champion, but those are scarce as well.  The only NOS stuff I've seen for a while is the Tradeship and Champion.  I haven't looked for a while, so you might get lucky.

[nzoomed]

Hi Shaun,

 

Well, it's a good thing to only ream the hole large enough for a nice snug fit, but the flange and some very minor epoxy around the inner radius of the hole is plenty to hold the bearing or bushing.  Just make sure the bearing/bushing and the inside of the can are clean and burr-free before epoxying...especially the bushing if that's what you're using.  The oilite material is impregnated with oil, so the outer surface should be especially clean to prevent the oil from messing up the bond.  I put epoxy around the rim/flange of the bushing/bearing and then insert it into the clean hole, using an armature shaft with a stop collar pressed onto it.  Once the bearing is seated, insert an end bell on the other side of the arm shaft to keep the new bushing'/bearing bore-aligned with the end bell center.  If you put the epoxy on the hole and then insert the bushing/bearing, there's a good chance of getting epoxy where you don't want it.  JB Weld is great for this because it won't run all over the place, and once cured is really strong.

 

You CAN solder them and that has been the more common method for a long time.  If soldering-in an oilite, go as quick as you can and then stop as soon as the solder flows...or MAYBE give it a quick hit with a bit more acid to be sure the joint is good.  You can quickly boil-out the oil in the bushing.  If soldering a bearing, same thing, but here the thing to avoid is cooking whatever oil is in the bearing and turning it into gritty black carbon.  Some will soak the bearing in acetone beforehand to try and remove any oil and prevent this from happening in the first place.

***In either case, you really should use acid flux when soldering anything to steel, and applying a very small amount with an artist's brush let's you be neat and precise with the stuff.  Anytime after soldering with acid, the part needs a good cleanup with a baking soda and water paste...then a thorough rinse with clean water to neutralize any acid residue.  Do this inside and out on all surfaces, because the stuff will get on every surface, especially the ones you don't think it did.  The parts you didn't neutralize and rinse will show up easily later on as rust!
 

Me too, I wouldn't trust the stuff, but I guess (?) it must work for some.  ***Of course, in ALL cases, always install either a bushing or a bearing with the flange on the inside of the can, as extra insurance against the thing coming out or loose.  It will be trapped against the tail spacer of the armature, and can't come out...even if it comes loose.

 

In an word...no, at least not new ones.  Don't get me wrong, the Tradeship end bells are OK, and certainly as good as the Mabuchis, plus they come with the better "Pentroof" hardware.  The Champion end bells are a little better than either the Mabuchi or the Tradeship, but they've gotten really scarce.  The Mura 16D end bells are lightyears-better than either the Mabuchi, the Tradeship or the Champion, but those are scarce as well.  The only NOS stuff I've seen for a while is the Tradeship and Champion.  I haven't looked for a while, so you might get lucky.

 

Hi Shaun,

 

Well, it's a good thing to only ream the hole large enough for a nice snug fit, but the flange and some very minor epoxy around the inner radius of the hole is plenty to hold the bearing or bushing.  Just make sure the bearing/bushing and the inside of the can are clean and burr-free before epoxying...especially the bushing if that's what you're using.  The oilite material is impregnated with oil, so the outer surface should be especially clean to prevent the oil from messing up the bond.  I put epoxy around the rim/flange of the bushing/bearing and then insert it into the clean hole, using an armature shaft with a stop collar pressed onto it.  Once the bearing is seated, insert an end bell on the other side of the arm shaft to keep the new bushing'/bearing bore-aligned with the end bell center.  If you put the epoxy on the hole and then insert the bushing/bearing, there's a good chance of getting epoxy where you don't want it.  JB Weld is great for this because it won't run all over the place, and once cured is really strong.

 

You CAN solder them and that has been the more common method for a long time.  If soldering-in an oilite, go as quick as you can and then stop as soon as the solder flows...or MAYBE give it a quick hit with a bit more acid to be sure the joint is good.  You can quickly boil-out the oil in the bushing.  If soldering a bearing, same thing, but here the thing to avoid is cooking whatever oil is in the bearing and turning it into gritty black carbon.  Some will soak the bearing in acetone beforehand to try and remove any oil and prevent this from happening in the first place.

***In either case, you really should use acid flux when soldering anything to steel, and applying a very small amount with an artist's brush let's you be neat and precise with the stuff.  Anytime after soldering with acid, the part needs a good cleanup with a baking soda and water paste...then a thorough rinse with clean water to neutralize any acid residue.  Do this inside and out on all surfaces, because the stuff will get on every surface, especially the ones you don't think it did.  The parts you didn't neutralize and rinse will show up easily later on as rust!
 

Me too, I wouldn't trust the stuff, but I guess (?) it must work for some.  ***Of course, in ALL cases, always install either a bushing or a bearing with the flange on the inside of the can, as extra insurance against the thing coming out or loose.  It will be trapped against the tail spacer of the armature, and can't come out...even if it comes loose.

 

In an word...no, at least not new ones.  Don't get me wrong, the Tradeship end bells are OK, and certainly as good as the Mabuchis, plus they come with the better "Pentroof" hardware.  The Champion end bells are a little better than either the Mabuchi or the Tradeship, but they've gotten really scarce.  The Mura 16D end bells are lightyears-better than either the Mabuchi, the Tradeship or the Champion, but those are scarce as well.  The only NOS stuff I've seen for a while is the Tradeship and Champion.  I haven't looked for a while, so you might get lucky.

 

Thanks for that.

I might just grab some champion endbells and go with those.

As far as JB weld goes, that is available here so will grab some.

 

What kind of BB's do you recommend, i went with the sealed sort that are already packed with grease.

 

Also need to ask you about commutators. The only replacement ones i can find are tradeship ones, but where do parma and proslot source theirs from? Ive got a couple that have worn out.

[havlicek]

I don't use any special bearings, whatever's cheap.  I use the open kind sometimes, because I like the way they look  ...and they're easy to lube if they need it.

Other than the Tradeship ones, you only sometimes can find suitable ones on ebay, but I only use those on the larger shaft of the FT36D armatures.

***For really good coms of the type (or better) that are currently used by manufacturers, Bill Bugenis (*here under William Bugenis) has them.  For motors that really matter, they are the only way to go.  I don't think Parma makes armatures, but ProSlot makes their own as well as Koford.

[nzoomed]

I don't use any special bearings, whatever's cheap.  I use the open kind sometimes, because I like the way they look  ...and they're easy to lube if they need it.

Other than the Tradeship ones, you only sometimes can find suitable ones on ebay, but I only use those on the larger shaft of the FT36D armatures.

***For really good coms of the type (or better) that are currently used by manufacturers, Bill Bugenis (*here under William Bugenis) has them.  For motors that really matter, they are the only way to go.  I don't think Parma makes armatures, but ProSlot makes their own as well as Koford.

OK, ill flick him a message.

These were the ones i was looking at on ebay https://www.ebay.com...-IAAOSw8gVX~C-D

 

Inner diameter was 2.2mm so I was assuming they would have been for a 16D

[Jaeger Team]

I prefer Bill Bugenis's communtators

[havlicek]

OK, ill flick him a message.

These were the ones i was looking at on ebay https://www.ebay.com...-IAAOSw8gVX~C-D

 

Inner diameter was 2.2mm so I was assuming they would have been for a 16D

Those are fine for mild period winds with low timing...60-65/30awg, maybe 50-55/29awg.  They appear to be Tradeship coms, and I have a bunch that I use every once in a while.  ***Be careful here, as many have a "built-in timing advance" set to CW as opposed to the more common and pretty much "standard" modern CCW.  You CAN wind arms and have them run best CCW with these, but if you time the com by eye, ALWAYS use the com slits as a reference and not the tabs.

When doing an armature for a motor with the smaller 16D/26D brushes, these smaller diameter coms will make for a faster motor, all other things being equal.

 

 

I prefer Bill Bugenis's communtators

There is no comparison...period.  Bills coms are made with the phenolic dovetailed to the copper shell, something that was developed long after this type com was used for slots.  The copper shell material is thicker and will wear longer, and the diameter is appropriate for the wider "36D" sized modern brushes (*when mounted horizontally of course).  Bill's coms are much much stronger, more precise (although these Tradeship ones generally don't need much work to true-up), and far longer-wearing.  

[nzoomed]

Those are fine for mild period winds with low timing...60-65/30awg, maybe 50-55/29awg.  They appear to be Tradeship coms, and I have a bunch that I use every once in a while.  ***Be careful here, as many have a "built-in timing advance" set to CW as opposed to the more common and pretty much "standard" modern CCW.  You CAN wind arms and have them run best CCW with these, but if you time the com by eye, ALWAYS use the com slits as a reference and not the tabs.

When doing an armature for a motor with the smaller 16D/26D brushes, these smaller diameter coms will make for a faster motor, all other things being equal.

 

 

There is no comparison...period.  Bills coms are made with the phenolic dovetailed to the copper shell, something that was developed long after this type com was used for slots.  The copper shell material is thicker and will wear longer, and the diameter is appropriate for the wider "36D" sized modern brushes (*when mounted horizontally of course).  Bill's coms are much much stronger, more precise (although these Tradeship ones generally don't need much work to true-up), and far longer-wearing.  

OK, so on an early mabuchi with the smaller brushes you get a faster motor with the smaller diameter tradeship comms?

I dont know how much difference there will be between bills and the tradeship ones, but im going to be going with a 29AWG wind anyway.