3573 replies to this topic

[Horsepower]

Narrowing up the brushes reduces the timing and if too narrow you have an instance in the rotation when only 2 comm segments are touching and this makes for poor power. The reason the bigger dia. comms do not run as well with out a change to a wider or laydown style brush.

THAT'S what I was thinking about! Thanks to Tony for explaining it.
John, those little buggers are works of art. I liked to do those same mods, except rather than rewind I used Classic 3 volt factory replacement armatures. I never liked those dead end bearings. Always tried to change them out for better oiling access.

[havlicek]

Thanks for the looks guys.

(did you solder the brush hoods to the brush tubes?)

...no Jairus, and I didn't fashion any spring post protectors nor brush shunts...or insulate the springs. Tony wanted to keep the motor as 1966 (I think that's the year) as possible.

I liked to do those same mods, except rather than rewind I used Classic 3 volt factory replacement armatures. I never liked those dead end bearings. Always tried to change them out for better oiling access.

I would think that was a pretty hot setup! Yeah those bearings are nasty and even new they were pretty sloppy (side to side). You also have to believe that, with no tail spacer on the arm, the motor shaft would be drilling deeper and deeper into that bearing making more slop (longitudinally). Of course this is all "new" to me again as I don't remember any problems with the Russkits. Back then I just thought they were cool!


So now I'm faced with another dilemma. I got the Tradeship endbells for the other two Russkits (two "22's"), and the Tradeship coms that E Dreams says are "just the ticket for any FT16 or FT26"...but they don't fit. It's not by much and I assume I can radius-out the inside of the endbell to get them to fit, but that doesn't sound like a good idea at all. For one, after reading what Tony said above...maybe they won't work properly, also the brushes will probably have to be shortened every time they're replaced for the springs to hold them properly and whatever other problems they might cause. I have a smattering of coms lying around that will work, but the one that I used on Tony's motor was really nice (It also was bagged and tagged as "Tradeship" or "French/Tradeship") and is clearly the com to use.

-john

[Hworth08]

Nice work John!

Back in the day my favorite wind was 80/32 before any aftermarket magnets were available. Not as fast ( but close) as the "hotter"winds but our races were 200 straight laps with no lane rotations. About a 30 minute race on a 240 foot Engleman, 80/32 was usually quite reliable.

An item worth considering on the Mabuchi blanks is replacing the shaft with a 2 mm drill blank. An automotive machine shop used to do our's, in about 30 seconds!

It was pretty common when the French magnets were released in late 1966 to remove 3 or 4 lams from the stack.

The blind bearing wasn't that bad. We used a toothpick to apply wheel bearing grease that kept it "new" and fairly tight. The gimbal bearing caused me more trouble than the blind bearing.

Last, with magnets that would not fit the can, we usually just cut the retaining tabs out rather than flatten them. That didn't increase performance, it just looked "racy", especially to us young teens!

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

I did all three solutions, groove the mag, flatten the tab and cut the tab! "Flatten" was the easiest and as I couldn't find one better than the other, I did that most.

I dont remember ever having the can bearing burn through.

For ME, I did a total rebuild after every race, so I wasn't that concerned with very long term reliability. It also explains why my boxes have a lot of disassembled bits, but few intact motors.

I think you are having "flashback fun" John. I am inspired to build a couple myself for my surviving frames!

Fate

[havlicek]

The blind bearing wasn't that bad. We used a toothpick to apply wheel bearing grease that kept it "new" and fairly tight.

Hi Don,

I don't recall any particular trouble with the Russkit bearings, but that's no surprise since I can't even remember my kid's birthdays Still, all three of the Russkits I have here made the same awful howling noise that I was pretty sure was coming from the can end. I disassebled them and oiled them and the noise didn't go away...but it changed to a slightly "different" noise which made me pretty sure that it was indeed the can bearings. When I swapped out the bearings on all three, the noise went away I would have preferred to not change the bearings, but for some reason they were pretty awful!?

I dont remember ever having the can bearing burn through.

Hi Rocky,

I'd be shocked if one ever actually burned through, but I figure the shaft end has to be up to no good against that bearing You're right though, I am having "flashback fun" reliving all this and it's gratifying to take a motor that is barely functional, strip it and rewind it and have one that hums!

I am inspired to build a couple myself for my surviving frames!

Heck, I wish somebody would!

I have some cool rewinding to do for folks now...a really nice Champion 517, a "special" Russkit...and favorite of all my favorites from when I was a kid...a K&B Wildcat! Also, my buddy Jairus has given me an idea about a bastard motor he's going to do that I think I'll copy after I pick his prolific brain for details and information At some point, I have to get fixtures for my RGEO crank to fit FT26 and even FT36 arms if this keeps up

-john

[Hworth08]

Something that was popular at our track for 2 or 3 months was to "reverse" a Russkit 23. We'd change the blind bearing with a endbell oilite, then drill the can to mount the motor "backwards" and use a blank from a can mounted motor. We had an idea of the frame being a heat sink.

Then a machinest started started drilling the gimbal bearing housing for a ball bearing and that wound up the blind bearing motors. Course it wasn't long till the oval hole can was released that improved things again...

[havlicek]

A Pair of "double-deuces" (Russkit 22s) for a blogger. I had trouble with the coms we were going to use, so I found a couple of Kirkwoods someone had given me and cleaned them up for this job. Both are the same #28 wind and sound really strong. Now I just have to finish building the cans...one gets a pair of Red Dots and the other gets Globe Versitec magnets and both have Tradeship endbells.



-john

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Looking good John!
I've been digging and have found ya some care package stuff so will send out soon.

[tjsguns]

[havlicek]

Looking good John!
I've been digging and have found ya some care package stuff so will send out soon.

Hi Barney,

Cool! Any luck with blanks and coms? I'm running low on the new stuff.

Hi Tom,

I suppose you guessed these are yours BTW...the Versitec magnets feel very strong. So far, I've only tested these in my setup, but I think both the Red Dots and the Versitecs will do nicely!

-john

[havlicek]

The two Russkit 22's are all done, and while I'm not much of a motor builder I think they came out pretty neat. I made post protectors out of a piece of antennae from Radio Shack and wound up having to use Mura medium springs because the Mabuchi springs won't fit over them. Endbells are Tradeship and the shunted brushes were supplied by the owner. One can has Mura Red Dots and the other has Globe Versitec magnets. Both motors are single #28 awg winds that draw around 1 1/2 amps and run pretty cool.



-john

[Jairus]

Very nice work John!

[havlicek]

Thanks a heap Jairus

-john

[tjsguns]

VERY Cool John!
These are going into some EXCEPTIONAL Thingies!
Thanks a million!

[havlicek]

Hi Tom,

It was my pleasure. Jeez...I hope the motors are as nice as those thingies sound! Both run well though, so I think it should all work well for you. Enjoy!

-john

[GTPJoe]

Hi John!

Man you gotta be kidding! You are one hell of a motor builder, those are beauties!!

It's funny cause I know we all like the 25S or 24S super arm, but those #28 arms are so much fun.
I'm just finishing up chassis' for those 53/28 you did for me. They sound so sweet on the bench....

See ya!

[havlicek]

Hi Joe,

I'm missing quite a few tools I should have to do proper motor building so I just hack my way through things doing the best I can (have you seen the price of hones lately!!! ). I've got a really cool project coming up soon...a K&B Wildcat (it'll be just like those 40+ years never passed)! I'm going to probably do another #28...maybe a #26 with that one and go a little crazy. I have to get me one of those Tradeship endbells though, they're really nice! I know what you mean about the #28 winds though. They run really nice, but are still manageable. I think #26 is about the break point and below that they start to get hairy (I mean that in a good way of course )



Anyway, before the Wildcat I have a pretty minty Champion 517 to do and I'm looking forward to that one especially. Another really nice motor!

-john

[Don Weaver]

Anyway, before the Wildcat I have a pretty minty Champion 517 to do and I'm looking forward to that one especially. Another really nice motor!

John,

I think that's my 517 you're talking about. I bought it my last year of college (Go Vols!) and my wife was pregnant with our first child so you can imagine how tight money was! I dearly love the looks of that motor and have kept it all these years and am looking forward to putting it into a 'jail-door' chassis like what we raced back then. Do the Wildcat first if you want.....I haven't started on the chassis as I'm trying to get ready for the SERRA race in LaGrange in a couple of weeks. THANKS for taking on this project for me.....I'm really looking forward to the final results!! Just wish I could find a 'sticker' for it.

Don Weaver

[GTPJoe]

John,

Yeah with the #28's in the jaildoor type chassis you can get right to the edge for sure, more than enuff power to go fast or off!!

Once things got switched over to the tilting mounts and brass sheets a #26 was they way to go. Then aglewinders changed the whole scene!

See ya!!

[tonyp]

Guys, I just got my Russkit 23 back from John and it is the money for sure. Great job.

Now I need a similar sized motor to use for a jig motor for a couple of reproduction cars. Anyone know where I can get a couple of mabuchi's or whatever you guys are using...

[havlicek]

Guys, I just got my Russkit 23 back from John and it is the money for sure. Great job.

Now I need a similar sized motor to use for a jig motor for a couple of reproduction cars. Anyone know where I can get a couple of mabuchi's or whatever you guys are using...

Thanks Tony,

I wish I had more old Mabuchi cans lying around or I'd send one off to you. I have some 26D and even 36D cans lyiong around but no 16D.

Hey Don,

Figured I'd start your motor off with a little of a step-by-step. So here's the "before" picture of your lovely Champ 517:


Not to worry, I'll take good care of it

-john

[don.siegel]

Looks like another great project John, and the 517 is a handsome motor indeed!

If I remember right, the 517 was the first all American made can, no Mabuchi components at all - does that sound right Tony?

Don

[havlicek]

Looks like another great project John, and the 517 is a handsome motor indeed!

If I remember right, the 517 was the first all American made can, no Mabuchi components at all - does that sound right Tony?

Don

Hi Don,

Yeah...it really is a cool motor indeed! I really like the Russkits as they are wide-open for hot-rodding and still plentiful and fairly cheap. Now I get another history lesson playing with the Champ and it's a sturdy and beautiful motor. Here it is all cleaned-up:


I'll have to add some doo-dads to it after I wind the arm, but this motor already seems to me like it's going to be pretty danged zippy! The blank Don sent me is really nice, and the magnets are seemingly really strong without even zapping them. ...don't worry Don...no single 23's

-john

[tonyp]

The 517 was all American made according to Rick Jordan who started working in the motor dept while attending high school and continued through Bolink until the end.

We had a long talk about Champion several years ago at a trade show. He said in the peak of 517 sales they ran the motor department 24 hours a day.

[don.siegel]

Very interesting Tony, thanks for that story. Especially because I think the 517 came out after the supposed "slot bust" in 1967, when the number of raceways declined drastically. But maybe that was the fad aspect, and there were still lots of hard-core racing fans, for whom the 517 was designed.

Don