23 replies to this topic

[Highnoon]

I used to run this type of lead wire back in the day. Double copper sided with plastic in the middle. Soldered on.

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[MSwiss]

I don't see why not.

 

What was the purpose?

 

Most multi piece lead wire setups were flexible wire in the front, with solid copper magnet wire, in the back, soldered to the motor buss bar.

[Highnoon]

Just so the lead wire wouldn’t get tangled up. Nothing to do with weight savings back then, but now maybe, I’ll run the 18 gauge in the front and the 20 in the back, move it up closer to the guide. Back in the day when someone asked you why you did something that you really had no real good reason for we use to say..ah just fiddles.

[MSwiss]

These days, racers keep their lead wire where they want it, with the ear ring back(an invention of a part-time Koford employee, back in 1989), and pieces of shrink wrap.

[Racer36]

It should be mentioned that the chassis pictured is not legal for Group F. It must be an integral guide tongue, not soldered on.

[The Number of]

  Since there are no OFFICAL set of rules for Group F, each individual raceway would rule on legality, i.e. at MMW for the Group F the regs are standard lead wire with a max 1/2 in stripped at each end. And as Dennis said that particular chassis would not be legal..

[Half Fast]

There are "OFFICIAL" group F rules found in the USRA Rule book, which require the chassis to have an integral guide tongue

 

Cheers

[Highnoon]

Lets see, I knew the chassis would not be legal, I read the USRA rules the MMW rules and its over 33 years old and its a mess. Kind of like me.

Thanks Bill for the local MMW rules interpretation as I missed that when I was reading the MMW rules. MMW is were Ill be racing. So standard lead wire means that making lead wire with 18 gauge in front and 20 gauge in rear solder together in the middle is illegal?

[The Number of]

Without getting into specifics on gauge, coating, aluminum, or copper wound, a single wire unbroken for pos and neg stripped no more than 1/2 in on either end. We were trying to eliminate the use of solid wire in between. 

[bbr]

Usually, it's good to let people run whatever until they start getting good, then they should be legal. But just let them know at the start so they are not surprised.

[gatormark]

The Fla wing series allows hawk 6 motors with zapped mags, balanced arms and bearings? which defeats the purpose of Group F but when the motor builders call the shots anything goes I guess. I thought the USRA rules were quite clear and the Group F status was established as a handicap limited class for wing racers. Track owners are doing this to increase motor sales and ruined a great entry level form of racing wings.

[bbr]

The Fla wing series allows hawk 6 motors with zapped mags, balanced arms and bearings? which defeats the purpose of Group F but when the motor builders call the shots anything goes I guess. I thought the USRA rules were quite clear and the Group F status was established as a handicap limited class for wing racers. Track owners are doing this to increase motor sales and ruined a great entry level form of racing wings.

 

The people who runs the series usually dictates the rules, whether is right or wrong is irrelevant , but what  matters is there's enough people willing to play by those rules. When in Rome…

My experience racing in many different forms and groups of racing…LOL…ugh  

[gatormark]

Well if I sold barbed wire, I would like a law that stated all cattle are to be fenced in right?

[Mr. M]

Mark, you are dead wrong about the owners doing this to increase sales and that this ruins the class. For three reasons. 1. Sealed motors increase the number of sales just like in retro. 2. The racers asked for this, not the owners. 3. Group F is the largest class. I was one of those who asked this and it was a spillover from some other classes run at the time. By the way, ball bearings are not allowed in F, replacement oilites are. If you look at the cars, many still run sealed motors and over time have been some of the fastest consistent winners. There is no real advantage, just something to tinker with for those that choose to. The class is hardly ruined, usually has the highest entries. You can be competitive with either sealed or not. The sealed Hawk 7 has a slight advantage given the manufacturing specs and magnet material. So there is no basis for berating the decisions made and those who choose this route.

[mreibman]

took me some time to take a couple pics while working on other things.... but here are some examples from my piles of old stuff.

 

- Honeycutt Chassis from around 1985. I added a wire to hold the lead wires, as there isn't a whole lot of chassis to keep them up. (no lead wires currently on chassis)

- Dick P tripod G27 chassis using coated PCB - early 90s

- Dick P Plurimeter (well, I believe it's a Dick P anyway) using an earring back. early 90s

 

If you use the PCB, put it up forward and make the lead wires act like a spring to bring your flag back to center. The advantage is when a marshall goes to put your car back in, it should be quicker. :-)

[MSwiss]

The Fla wing series allows hawk 6 motors with zapped mags, balanced arms and bearings? which defeats the purpose of Group F but when the motor builders call the shots anything goes I guess. I thought the USRA rules were quite clear and the Group F status was established as a handicap limited class for wing racers. Track owners are doing this to increase motor sales and ruined a great entry level form of racing wings.

Your post makes zero sense.

Why would allowing "built" motors increase motor sales?

Motor builders claim if they can build their own motors, they can buy less.

Regardless if this is true or not, the limiting factor on how many motors a racer buys or builds, is how much money they want to spend.

What does "handicap limited class" mean?

[Twisted Metal]

The Fla wing series allows hawk 6 motors with zapped mags, balanced arms and bearings? which defeats the purpose of Group F but when the motor builders call the shots anything goes I guess. I thought the USRA rules were quite clear and the Group F status was established as a handicap limited class for wing racers. Track owners are doing this to increase motor sales and ruined a great entry level form of racing wings.

Mark,

The Type F wing car class for the Florida Wing Car Series have the largest entry of any wing class we run here in Florida even without your support in the series. As a track owner i have not noticed any increase in motor sales with our rules. The Hawk 6 motor might have a slight advantage when built correctly but it isn't much. I have several Hawk 7 Type F cars that will run right along side of the Hawk 6 built motors and the PS 4002 motors have also proved to be strong. Hope to see you at the next race at P1 Raceway in Winter Garden on the 17th of February for your support in the series.

[gatormark]

Maybe Im speaking for the track here Ed. I don recall any hawk 7,s or 4002,s ever turning turning the 3.5 and 3.6 that the balanced hawk 6 does. Last race was won by a hawk 6 right?

[Danny Zona]

A PS4002 TQued and broke the track record at P1 yesterday. 1st and 2nd also used PS4002s.

[gotboostedvr6]

DZ those 4002fk sealed?

[Danny Zona]

DZ those 4002fk sealed?

Yes, sir.

[Bucky]

Yes, sir.

Bringing it full circle, did the winner use a 30 year old chassis with lead wires soldered to a board in the middle of it?

[Jason Holmes]

DZ

 

And what did they turn (TQ) and total laps were? and what were the old records? 

 

jason

[gotboostedvr6]

Lead wire... right!