Jump to content




Photo

4002FK versus 16D


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Upfront slot cars

Upfront slot cars

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:04 AM

Opinions wanted.

What is everyone's thoughts on the two motors, comparing them speed-wise. A built 4002FK or a built 16D? 4002FK Chinese arm vs. 16D American arm. Which one is faster?

Thanks.
  • Geary Carrier likes this
Andrew Ford




#2 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,459 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:57 AM

Faster where? In a straight line or in a lap on what track? And what wind on the 16D arm?

The factor you need also to consider is weight. The 4002FK is a lighter motor and that can make a big difference in handling on a road course track.

Another point is that 16D is slot racing old tech and is likely in its declining years.
  • Half Fast and havlicek like this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#3 Upfront slot cars

Upfront slot cars

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:11 AM

On an oval. A legal 16D arm dot USRA.
Andrew Ford

#4 Justin A. Porter

Justin A. Porter

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 774 posts
  • Joined: 08-August 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Ridgeville, OH

Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:27 AM

In this contest I would give the edge to the 16D (especially if you go with a nice big .560" arm) for performance with its torque. Using a lighter can, like the Kamen Demon or Red Fox D-can will offset a lot of the weight penalty from the 16D.

The D-can, though, will raise your center of gravity and you won't be able to mount your body nearly as low as you can with the FK.
  • Cheater and Silver Fox like this
Operator - Haven Raceway in Elyria, OH
Series Director - Ohio Challenge Cup

#5 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,569 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:23 PM

On average, a 4002FK is faster and requires less maintenance.

My best 16Ds are 2 tenths faster than my fastest 4002FK. I have a lifetime supply of 16Ds available so your results may vary.

If you're prepping for the Nats, I would bring both. If power is good, you're gonna want a 16D.
  • Cheater likes this
David Parrotta

#6 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,703 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 31 January 2019 - 04:59 PM

As luck would have it, and in a serendipitous turn of events, I've been working on this very thing.  


  • Cheater likes this
John Havlicek

#7 swodem

swodem

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • Joined: 29-October 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 31 January 2019 - 07:45 PM

On average, a 4002FK is faster and requires less maintenance.

My best 16Ds are 2 tenths faster than my fastest 4002FK. I have a lifetime supply of 16Ds available so your results may vary.

If you're prepping for the Nats, I would bring both. If power is good, you're gonna want a 16D.


Does this post contradict itself?
  • Samiam and elvis44102 like this

Steve Meadows


#8 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,569 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:23 PM

No, it's pretty clear.

If you can only afford a few motors buy the 4002FK. If your budget is less constrained, buy a few of both. If you have deep pockets, focus on handwound 16Ds in .518" and .560" and have a few backup 4002FKs on hand.
David Parrotta

#9 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,905 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 01 February 2019 - 06:56 AM

You have to have seen pictures of Dave's 16D collection to truly understand his post  LOL


  • Half Fast, Samiam and Danny Zona like this
"Whatever..."

#10 mark1

mark1

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 88 posts
  • Joined: 22-October 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MI

Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:21 AM

I look at it this way. Three things. Fast, good, cheap. You can only pick two. FK = fast and cheap. American 16D = fast and good.


  • Samiam likes this
Mark Anderson

#11 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,703 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:11 AM

Faster where? In a straight line or in a lap on what track? And what wind on the 16D arm?

The factor you need also to consider is weight. The 4002FK is a lighter motor and that can make a big difference in handling on a road course track.

Another point is that 16D is slot racing old tech and is likely in its declining years.

 

I agree with Greg...except for a minor point that's really more about semantics than anything else.  The 16D isn't really any "older tech" than any other current motor, it's just a different size or "scale" factor.  That difference could actually be a "plus" for some kinds of racing, and it could also still make for fast and fun racing by current standards if *only* 16D motors were the spec.  The "tech" though is no different or older.  It's still a 3-pole brushed DC motor in a "can" type setup, no different from the "minicans" or the C-cans.  ***I think that racer preferences for inexpensive "sealed" motors at the budget end of the spectrum have limited C and D can motors, way more than the tech.


  • boxerdog and Samiam like this
John Havlicek

#12 Upfront slot cars

Upfront slot cars

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:22 AM

I dont care about a budget. I do not look at price when trying to make it on the podium. Looks as if I will have to do some testing. Lol. Just curious if anyone else had already done some testing.
  • Danny Zona likes this
Andrew Ford

#13 Danny Zona

Danny Zona

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,191 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Hill (DaytonaBch), FL

Posted 01 February 2019 - 11:19 AM

I know on the Orange track at Viper Pitt we could use a 16D or Hawk 7 at a race.

I was faster with the 16D.

I'm not sure how the PS4002 compares to a hawk 7 though.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Luck is the residue of design.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

Kelly Racing.

#14 swodem

swodem

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • Joined: 29-October 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:28 PM

I would determine it by the body being used

A 16D in a high downforce body (LMP, GTP etc) would likely be faster lap times

In a low downforce body (F1, Can-am without any added rear spoiler, Nascar etc) then the lighter weight better handling PS4002FK would likely produce faster lap times.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Steve Meadows


#15 swodem

swodem

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • Joined: 29-October 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:31 PM

You have to have seen pictures of Dave's 16D collection to truly understand his post  LOL


I have
I’m sure he has no idea how most of them go.
But that wasn’t the OP’s question. He wanted to know which motor was faster



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Steve Meadows


#16 Fast Freddie

Fast Freddie

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 649 posts
  • Joined: 04-March 08

Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:41 PM

Not sure I see it your way Steve.  High downforce bodies create their own weight with downforce.  That's why it's described in pounds of force.  The lighter motor would do better in a high downforce body for that reason.  While a body that doesn't have a lot of downforce could benefit from the weight of the bigger motor and maybe even some weight added to the pans/chassis.  It's also why we can run harder tires in high downforce bodies and softer tires in low downforce bodies.  Just something to consider. 


Fred Younkin

#17 swodem

swodem

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • Joined: 29-October 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:28 PM

Not sure I see it your way Steve.  High downforce bodies create their own weight with downforce.  That's why it's described in pounds of force.  The lighter motor would do better in a high downforce body for that reason.  While a body that doesn't have a lot of downforce could benefit from the weight of the bigger motor and maybe even some weight added to the pans/chassis.  It's also why we can run harder tires in high downforce bodies and softer tires in low downforce bodies.  Just something to consider. 


Yes it does you’re right, but I think the power of the 16D has more ability to overcome that downforce drag and that same downforce overcomes the higher CoG of the D-can

For instance, consider which one you think would do better under a Wing body...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Steve Meadows


#18 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,802 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:46 PM

Not sure I see it your way Steve.  High downforce bodies create their own weight with downforce.  That's why it's described in pounds of force.  The lighter motor would do better in a high downforce body for that reason.  While a body that doesn't have a lot of downforce could benefit from the weight of the bigger motor and maybe even some weight added to the pans/chassis.  It's also why we can run harder tires in high downforce bodies and softer tires in low downforce bodies.  Just something to consider.

Unless there was a crazy ruleset that let you choose one of two way different motors, but didn't allow you to add lead, you would always have a handling advantage with the lower, lighter motor, because if you needed weight, you could put it down low with lead, or even lower, with one of my low CG guides.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516






Electric Dreams Online Shop