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Professor Motor B52 ball bearing motor


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#51 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:32 AM

Greg:

In what series are you running the Trans-Am cars?  Also, who makes the bodies? Finally, I'd love to see a few pictures of the cars you are running, sounds like a great class. (Sorry for the thread drift!)

Thanks!

Jay,

 

We run those Trans-Am cars with a Flexi frame with a motor bracket. The Bodies if I'am think correctly are from JK. 70 style Camaro, Mustang, and Javelin AMX. Bodies have very little down force it is a fun class. It is a weekly class at Boogie Speedway. Now back to the B52 50K motors,

 

Regards,

GVP  






#52 TallyBernie

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:08 PM

Not quite sure how we went from a B52 motor discussion to Trans Am cars (?!?!), but yes, my brother owned a '69 390 Javelin and it was indeed a four-seater, whereas the AMX had a shorter wheelbase with only front-row seating.


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#53 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 05:05 PM

Not quite sure how we went from a B52 motor discussion to Trans Am cars (?!?!), but yes, my brother owned a '69 390 Javelin and it was indeed a four-seater, whereas the AMX had a shorter wheelbase with only front-row seating.

My fault I guess, I said I was going to test the B52/50k  in a Trans-Am. Car. I will run it tomorrow and post the results. I will be running a Camaro !



#54 TallyBernie

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 01:54 PM

I enjoyed the slight meandering as Im always happy to plug much-maligned AMC cars.

Body style notwithstanding, please let us know your B52 test results!
Keith Bernstein

#55 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 07:42 PM

Tested the B52 motor just picked one of the 4 I have installed and tested . Put another one in a Retro Can-Am In the Can-Am geared 8/27 the motor was faster then Pro-Slot FK and the Pro -Slot Scorpions that we run. It ran very smooth and COOL and was very quick as well as fast. This thing would make a great RETRO motor!

 

In the other car the B52 was more then a match for the hawk 7 motors. 

 

Track is a 155 Ft Hillclimb, running just shy of 13 volts. With the 8 tooth pinion in the Retro and the 10 tooth in the flexi the B52 had better brakes the the other motors of it;s style that we have run. 

 

Regards,

Greg VanPeenen



#56 swodem

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 07:55 PM

Thanks Greg that’s very interesting
I guess these are all heavy chassis compared to a C43

Our guys who have tested them in the C43 claim not quite as fast as a PS4002FK. To my best knowledge they haven’t tried the H7 again for a long time (at least pre C43)

For reference his is their Flat track:

d9f572e640e838a240dab8949fdb032b.jpg




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#57 TallyBernie

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:00 PM

Thanks all for the input! This is great info.
Keith Bernstein

#58 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 09:55 PM

Thanks Greg that’s very interesting
I guess these are all heavy chassis compared to a C43

Our guys who have tested them in the C43 claim not quite as fast as a PS4002FK. To my best knowledge they haven’t tried the H7 again for a long time (at least pre C43)

For reference his is their Flat track:

d9f572e640e838a240dab8949fdb032b.jpg

Yes the Can-Am was IRRA rules 100+ grams the one today was 107 grams the Trans-Am was under 100 grams but with the no down force Trans-Am bodies the Flexis all need added weight. So not much under 100 grams.

 

And the fact that the track voltage being under 13 seems to equal the motors out. If I would have use a 9 tooth on the B52 it would have been faster aand at that voltage lived.

 

I really like the motors, Now to get another 4 and see if any of them are faster or slower. If not they would make great hand out motors and maybe just maybe you wouldn't have 50 of them to find a couple of good ones.

 

One can only hope :) 

 

Regards, 

GVP    


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#59 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 04:28 PM

Just one more comment.  These motors are not to be confused with the Professor Motor Retro motor. The B52 motor has much better magnets or a much tighter air gap then the PM Retro motor The Chinese really screwed up the first runs of the PM retro motor using sub standard magnets in my opinion.    

 

Regards, 

GVP



#60 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:33 PM

The chassis has a special cradle for supporting bolted in tin can motors both ends
It’s designed for 64p 11t pinion and 37t (angled) gear
So that’s what we ran and the mesh was perfect.
No gear failures or issues in both races and no parts were changed

631368fd33a81028ec57906c1546eae4.jpg

The 4.5hr track used is 3-lane home built garage flat track with all corners, no straights (true). Lap times in the region of 3.3sec as average

The 2.5hr track is our Nationals track down in Wellington. It’s a 6- lane, 53m long flat track and average lap time (with this setup) 6.6sec. Some long straights



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..What size tires are you using this gearing with?


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#61 swodem

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 08:06 PM

Started about 18mm


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#62 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:06 AM

Started about 18mm


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Thank you Steve. 


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#63 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:34 PM

.710 for us SAE guys
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#64 swodem

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 04:00 PM

.710 for us SAE guys


Yes and that’s just because it was a 4.5hr enduro that we had only 2 sets of tyres for
Normal tyre size would be just enough to start race with 0.6mm clearance or 0.023622”



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#65 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:22 PM

I received some more test information from Downriver  Speedway, They tested the B52 motors on their Gerding high speed King Track. That track runs 13.6 or more volts and is very fast. They were not very impressed with the performance of the motors. They reported they were slower then the ProSlot FK and the JK Hawk 7. I am not sure what type of car they tested them in.

 

 

Regards,

GVP  



#66 swodem

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:31 PM

Does something always have to be faster to impress?




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#67 swodem

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:42 PM

I could have saved them money if they had asked whether or not it was faster than PSFK or H7
It’s not
It’s smoother and better balanced. About same speed as HR or PSEuro

For faster they should have tried the Phoenix. BUT while it’s in a tin can it’s not an FK wind


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#68 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 02:17 PM

I am thinking they may have tested the 25K motor by mistake. There is no way the same motor I tested and went low low 5's and high 4's for lap times on a 155 ft hillclimb with a Retro Can-Am would go slower on a swoopy king track on higher voltage in a flexi car. You think!  Oh I forgot you guys don't have track like that in NZ

 

The B52 is the exact same specs as the hawk 7. Smoother better balance and is faster then any good retro hawk, The Phoenix is fast but they don't last, it was meant to be a drag motor. If you want to go really fast go for a JK Hawk 11 it will smoke a Phoenix but not for very long. LMAO


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#69 swodem

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 04:10 PM

Greg
No we are mostly flat track
We do have one swoop banked track but it’s short by your standards

My feel is the B52 50k is still lacking the punch of the H7 or PSFK

No, the B52 50k is not the same spec as a H7 it’s quite different

Why do you say the Phoenix was designed as a drag motor? I did some testing on 3 different winds/prototypes of it before they decided on a final spec and no-where was it deemed for drag use


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#70 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 04:51 PM

The Phoenix doesn't last very long on the high voltage long very fast tracks that we have here. It is much more suited for drag racing where it has a long service life. Maybe on your short slower tracks it would work just fine. On a short technical track that much power would be a hand full for me with out a choke. If you have to use a choke the power is wasted, You could just use a Hawk 7.  Lastly I don't like having to change motors every two weeks of racing on the tracks here. 

 

The B52 motors I have seen are said to have 57 turns of of .25 mm wire that is the same gauge as the Hawk 7 in metric. The hawk 7 is said to have 3 less turns of wire then the Retro Hawk which has 60 turns, that in my book adds up to 57 turns same as the B52. The B52 has the same laminations, stack size. and brushes and end plate as the Hawk 7. I don't know for sure about the timing but if it's has more timing that would account for the extra punch you see in the hawk 7. The ball bearing and dirt shield in the B52 is the only thing that appears to be different . Educate me if I am wrong. Maybe the magnets are different but they appear the same. 

 

Regards,

GVP 



#71 swodem

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 07:33 PM

Greg
Hawk Retro is 65t/30awg (.254mm metric)
Hawk 7 should be 60t/30awg (.254mm metric)
The B52 is 57t/.25mm (metric)

The area (cross section of wire) difference of .254 vs .25 = roughly +0.6%

The key difference in the motors I believe will be that the HR and H7 have Poly-neo mags, I don’t know for sure but judging by the lack of cog I would say the B52 has ceramic mags

I’m unsure of the timing on the B52




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#72 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 11:30 PM

I will have to meter the magnets and let you know.


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#73 TallyBernie

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 11:29 AM

I finally had the opportunity to test a B52, and as luck would have it, several racers showed for yesterday's test-tune with their Hawk 7 cars. We ran on our non-swoopy Tunkel Blue King at 13.6v.

 

Our Monday night spec series calls for a Hawk 7, 13/37 64P gears, and any 4" flexi frame. Furthermore, we are currently running a body-spec series which calls for JK's Mazda-Dyson LMP body. JK Aeolos and Mossetti Defenders and Avengers are the chassis of choice at present. 

 

I ran my series-legal JK Aeolos with aluminum pans, set to .720, first with a used, but quick Hawk 7 motor, and then with an out-of-package B52. I ran treated Pro-Track tires cut to about .720. (The JK Aeolos likes Pro-track tires at our raceway.) My quick Hawk 7 lap on the blue lane was 4.595. I then allowed the B52 roughly 50 laps of fairly easy break-in, after which the B52 turned a a top lap of 4.504. My comparison of the two motors with literally everything being equal? (except a small amount of tire wear) - too close to call. But as far as I am concerned, the testing definitely ends the B52 v. HR debate. The B52 is much more in line with the H7. This was further reinforced by my matching or exceeding the top end as well as corner speeds of the guys tuning their Hawk 7 cars for Monday. 

 

By the end of the test session which included one motor clean-out and re-oiling, I put exactly 300 laps on the B52 and observed no dropoff in performance. I ended the day by popping on a beater GTP body and running a 4.325 with the B52 car. There was more there had I decided on newer shoes. In future testing I am looking for overall longevity of the B52 relative to the H7. 

 

I AM impressed.


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#74 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 03:57 PM

Keith,

 

You got close to the same results as I did in testing.  The B52 50K motor is more then a match for any Hawk 7 and the Hawk 7 is a bit faster the the FK motor and that makes the B52 more then a match for the FK.  How did you find the brakes on the B52.

 

Regards,

GVP



#75 TallyBernie

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 04:04 PM

Greg,

Id say the B52s brakes are on par if not a leeeetle better than the ubiquitous H7s we use here. A bit harder to quantify was the fact the B52s power seems to come on a little more smoothly than the H7. Hard to describe, its certainly not slow, just smooth.. Makes for a great drive.

Take care,

Bernie (Keith)
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