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Pinned nylon guide vs. graphite-filled guide


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#1 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:40 PM

I had a huge debate with Greg Wells about which guide is stronger. I say the graphite guide is; he says the pinned nylon guide is best. What do you guys say?

 

I have never broken a graphite guide post off in nine years. What's your experience?


Doc Dougherty
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#2 Pappy

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:49 PM

I say you guys need to combine forces and come out with a pinned graphite guide, that way you'll both be right.  :)


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#3 Cheater

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:54 PM

Doc and I just shared a most incredible Italian meal at Ann & Tony's in West Jefferson, OH (thanks for the recommendation, Tater and Cindy!) and we had a friendly but vigorous discussion about guides while we ate.

 

I think he's mischaracterizing my claims a wee bit. Back when the pink Parma nylon guides were available along with the graphite-filled black Parma guides, I had less trouble with the nylon guides than with the black ones, so eventually that's all I used.

 

Doc insists that he has never broken a post off a black graphite-filled guide and that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt they're stronger.

 

Of course, there are various formulations of graphite-filled nylon, depending on the percentage of graphite added to the mix. I recall the Slick 7 black guides were terrible for breaking. Don't have a lot of personal experience with some of the more recent GF guides, so perhaps they've improved the mix.

 

But I'm pretty sure he's going to hear from folks who have broken posts off black GF guides. We'll see...


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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#4 Phil Hackett

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:56 PM

Overall, I think if your guide post is breaking in an accident that it's been hit so hard that the rest of the car is not worthy of racing any further.

 

Never have I had a guide post break off and that was with the Associated flags, Jet flags, Parma flags, the graphite flags and this was through a time when 140 gram G7 cars were raced and the races were much "rougher." I have pictures of cars turned into "kits" after hitting something and the guide flags are still intact.

 

Somehow things have changed and *maybe* it's because of SCA (slot car anorexia, the obsession with removing weight from places it shouldn't be). Maybe it's because the guide tongues are stiffer and no flex means the forces have to do something or go somewhere and the guide post is the "fuse" in the crash. 


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#5 Pablo

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:14 PM

I don't know which flags are nylon and which are graphite. So I can't comment unless you give me a part # and a manufacturer. I have opinions. I've snapped a couple, I've pinned many, I've used different brands. No comment unless you specify.

 

Like going to the store and buying a bad avocado, then arguing over which avocado is the best. Greg Wells has forgotten more than most people will ever know about flags. When he talks, I listen intensely.

 

If you're not using one of Swiss' Red Fox weighted flags, you aren't entering the corners as fast as the smart guys who are. If you aren't launching and deslotting, flag shaft strength becomes somewhat of a non-issue.

 

If you are using a sub-standard flag, by all means, make sure it has the strongest shaft possible, Doc :)


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#6 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:33 PM

Yea, this is getting good. There's nothing better than arguing about slot cars.

 

Butch, I hear you but that would take all the fun out of it. And thank you for putting up with us last year on our Indy 500 trek. You are the man! Thanks again.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#7 Pappy

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:01 PM

Hey Doc,

 

It was my pleasure to put up with you guys last year. I told Greg if you wanted to stay here Sunday night before heading South just let me know.

 

I don't know if I'm going to make it to the R4 this year, I'm going to be pretty busy the next couple of days, hope to maybe stop by on Sunday.

 

Break a leg, not a guide. That means "good luck". :)


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#8 Mike Patterson

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:22 PM

I don't know which flags are nylon and which are graphite. 

 

AFAIK, all graphite guides are black. Nylon colors spread the gamut.


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#9 Rob Lees

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 10:41 AM

In the UK we quite often race in unheated sheds and barns. They warm up after a while, but in the meantime it's a regular thing to find your car handling poorly, look at it, and see that the front of the flag has sheared off diagonally.

 

The worst case I saw was both the front and rear of the flag snapping off, leaving a 'dragon's tooth' guiding the car.



#10 Bucky

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 09:34 PM

Graphite is stronger overall.
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#11 Cheater

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 11:04 PM

Agreed, Aaron, but strength can come with brittleness and my experience with guides made from both materials led me to prefer straight nylon over graphite-filled nylon guides for that particular factor.
 
My friend Doc and I had a difference of opinion on this subject and his experience was that GF nylons guides rarely if ever has a post break off. My experience and that of other friends has found that not to be true,

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 Bucky

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:31 AM

Greg, I'm just trying to stir the pot. I haven't broken a post in a while, but I do break the braid box on graphite and nylon relatively frequently. 


Aaron Rothstein

#13 Cheater

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:52 AM

I think we might be lumping all graphite mixtures together and I don't think that's fair. I suspect the older formulations incorporated a higher percentage of graphite thus making the final material more brittle. The first Slick 7 guides were particularly bad in that way.

 

More recent graphite percentages are probably lower, making the final product less brittle and perhaps accounting for Doc's history with graphite guides.

 

But that's just supposition on my part; I have no real evidence for the claim.

 

My long experience was in comparing only the pink nylon Parma and black graphite Parma 'Blades.'


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#14 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:25 AM

Were you boiling the nylon guides or not? What guides does Parma sell today? I think they're still popular with Bueno Park D3 racers.


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#15 Cheater

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:34 AM

I never boiled the nylon guides, although I was aware of the process and have had several racers tell me they still boil theirs.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap






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