23 replies to this topic

[Pablo]

If you want your flag blade to sit as deep in the slot as possible, you want your braids to lay flat.

You may already know this method or maybe you have a better one. This is how I do it:

 

Get your new braids and a short piece of 15 thou wire ready

 

 

Place the car in a slotted block, fully to the rear. Secure flag with fingers and push clips into flag to the hilt using a small screwdriver right at the Sharpie arrow (no, Bunky, not in the direction of the arrow)

 

 

 

Fold braid straight up and lay wire right here (pliers are just holding it for the photo)

 

[Pablo]

Fold braid over wire

 

 

Mash it down with strong meaty fingers as shown then remove wire

 

 

With wire removed, mash it down again, push forward, mash again, and it should look like this

 

 

 

 

[Don Weaver]

Yep. in a pinch I'll use the end of the wheel allen wrench.

[philk]

Just tried it, it really works. Dam, all those years fighting with braid to get it to lay flat and it was really this simple, guess you’ve got to be smarter than the braid.

[Zippity]

Please don't tell me that you have just learnt of this method of flattening braids on your guide flags.

 

Those 6" metal rulers also work a treat, as do the USRA chassis inspection tools

[Bernie]

Thanks for the tip... Going to try this out real soon!

[philk]

Please don't tell me that you have just learnt of this method of flattening braids on your guide flags.
 
Those 6" metal rulers also work a treat, as do the USRA chassis inspection tools

Actually I really new about it .🤥

[Jesse Gonzales]

The AZ racers that lived with a launching ramp that would shape shift to look like an American Orange at Jack's Raceway in Mesa in 1972 used to do this just to keep from becoming airborne and hitting the big sheet of plastic Jack screwed to the bank. What I have no experience with is the shortening of braid that I see people doing in various posts. I last raced in Feb. of 1992 in Las Vegas and at that time I don't think anyone shortened braid. Can anyone please fill me in on this practice to round out Pablo's excellent recommendation.

 

Jesse Gonzales

[Pablo]

Excellent question Jesse, and I think this is the perfect place and time to ask it 

I'm curious also. Swiss is probably the guy with the answer.

 

All I know is, scale guys tend to like full length braids and wing guys sometimes like to shorten it as a tuning tool.

[Bill from NH]

I'll let Swiss speak, but I've seen shortened braid used in GT-12 & 24-eurosport  on a flat track.

[MSwiss]

(FWIW, I didn't see the above couple posts. I was composing this post, between heats, at our Wednesday night wing race)

 

It started around 1994.

I noticed on Martin Gramann's G27 car,at a race at the Koford factory, he was running short braid.

When I asked him about it, he said he ran them shorter, because in a wreck, they were less apt to get all jacked up, and with braid wear not an issue, like with a G7, you could get away with it.( in G27 )

A few weeks later, at an after work testing session, with Beuf, one of us was happy with times we were turning.

Looking at the real worn, short braid, the other person said "put a new pair of braid on, and it will really fly".

 

It didn't.

 

The times were at least .05 slower, with the new, long braid.

 

We switched back and forth, 3 or 4 times, to confirm Martin had really undersold the full benefits of the short braid.

 

We theorized the magic of the shorter braid, must be, less friction.

 

It then became pretty standard practice with group cars, and in qualifying, with Opens.

 

What's weird, is whenever I tried it with scale cars, especially on a flat track, it really screws up the handling, usually making the car looser.

 

I don't pretend to understand why (the increased friction of full length braid provides more grip??)

 

PS-I can get braid to look like the (pretty much optimally adjusted) ones in post #2, just pressing hard with my thumbs, and pushing forward.

[Alan Dodson]

Part of the advantage of short braid in wing cars or any car with an integral guide tongue is that it lowers the front of the car. I hadn't considered the friction side of it, but it makes sense too. I think you may be able to make it work on scale cars if you adjusted the guide shims for it.

[NSwanberg]

In RETRO with new big tires - short braid.

 

With tires at the low limit - long braid.

 

I think it has to deal with the pivot off of the front wheels.

 

No doubt somebody will feel just the opposite.

[MSwiss]

Part of the advantage of short braid in wing cars or any car with an integral guide tongue is that it lowers the front of the car.

It allows the car to get minusculey lower in the front, as the tires wear, but that wasn't the reason we saw an improvement in lap times, back in 1994.

With the below, integral tongue car, which has exactly 1/16" clearance, if you cut the braid shorter, it wouldn't get any lower in the front, until a rake was created, from noticeably worn tires.

[Alan Dodson]

I stand corrected! Short braid would only lower the front of the car if it has some guide rake in it, which the integral tongue cars do not! Thanks, Mike!

[Greg VanPeenen]

 Take one guide sander like several people sell. After sanding the bottom of the guide flat install clips and braid, fold braid under guide. Put guide with braid back on guide sander, push down on guide and push slightly back, then still pushing down on the guide push forward. Instant flat braid. Make a little block with groove and sand paper glued on both side and put it or you guide sander in the junk you take with you to the driver station. Easy as can be, no little wire to drop, short braid long braid ,works flawless every time even when you are in a real hurry.

 

Don't over think everything just do what really works and is super easy.

 

Hey Mike, all that  crooked plated wire I got from you. That **** works great!  The chassis built with that stuff are no different then ones built with so called straight wire. Straight wire is highly over rated. Like I said don't over think stuff. 

 

Regards,

GVP  

[Phil Smith]

 Take one guide sander like several people sell. After sanding the bottom of the guide flat install clips and braid, fold braid under guide. Put guide with braid back on guide sander, push down on guide and push slightly back, then still pushing down on the guide push forward. Instant flat braid...

 

I do the exact same thing except with my thumbs. Holding the car upside down and pointed away from me, I just push down on the braid with both thumbs at the same time and push the braid forward a little.

 

Straight wire is highly over rated.

 

 

I agree. All the wire does is connect point A to point B. As long as the points are in the right location, the straightness of the wire in between them matters little.

[Pablo]

I'll start putting it in a special pile and send it you you guys instead of trashing it from now on.

[Greg VanPeenen]

I'll start putting it in a special pile and send it you you guys instead of trashing it from now on.

Only if it is plated wire that I can no longer get because "some people" bitched about it so Swiss decide to not make more. I bought every bit he had left.

 

I'll tell you what Paul lets look at race results and see who's Retro chassis have most major event wins.

 

I can tell you I never do any of the B/S you do when building a chassis except soldering, maybe not even that.  I use three different types of solders, but that other stuff no way and all my stuff works just fine. Guides 2 degrees up, centered, and flat. 4 tires on the ground. .050 in the rear .015 in the front .050 for stock cars. Everything done with just a tongue tweeker, a chassis fixture, some jig wheels, a wire bender. a pair of digital calipers and a racing engine builders eye. Heck I use all Koford axles so I never even check them anymore as they are always perfect.  

 

Regards, and happy racing. 

Greg VanPeenen 

[Pablo]

OK Greg then I won't give you any of my discarded wavy wire. Was just trying to do you an honest favor.

I'll send it all to Dallas Racer. If he can build well with it, more power to him.

 

I applaud your ability to deal with substandard wire and if your builds are winning, I won't argue with your success.

 

Greg V. don't you dare bring Swiss wire into this conversation again, Sir.

If you want a fight or argument or pissing contest, I suggest to start your own thread with your hateful agenda.

 

I never complained about wavy wire to anyone except K & S.

 

Game on. You want to go to war, chime in on my Cucaracha threads 

There you are welcome to explain to me your allegation of my "BS" techniques.

 

No argument over Koford axles, they are perfect. That's the only thing we have in common.

 

You showed your behind, now I'm showing mine to you, buddy.

I think you need to make your braid lay flatter, Dude.

My name is Paul, not patsy. 

[Greg VanPeenen]

My braid is always flat Paul. No little wires needed.

 

Sorry, but I know the truth hurts sometimes and that you and others fell the need to lash out when confronted with it.

 

Anything more you have to say is totally unimportant to me. Oh Yea and so are you. You have been placed on my ignore list so why waste your time spouting off like an over heated little tea pot. LMAO

 

Have a nice life. Keep racing on you little track and building your vintage stuff. If that is what turns your wick up.

[Bill from NH]

Now I know why I don't build in the public.It keeps talk short.   

[Pablo]

You have been placed on my ignore list

 

My heart is broken but let's just ignore each other  Must have broke your heart when the IRRA BOD banned you for a year, eh? 

 

I was actually there the day that happened, I could hear you hammering the shaft on your sealed motor from my pits a hundred feet away, matter of fact, everybody heard it. You obviously wanted everybody to know you were cheating. Flame on, I'll keep it up until Cheater bans us or locks it up. I won't back away from a fight with you, GVP 

 

You started it     

[Jay Guard]

If you two want to fight take off line, this topic is locked, NOW!