15 replies to this topic

[JimF]

Hey ya'll. Opened up Slotblog this AM to start working on Sunday's race report and found several messages regarding the McKee body just released by RTR. I'd suggest that you be cautious in rushing out to buy these. Be aware that I may not approve them for NorCal Retro. Make no mistake, this looks very nicely done and I'm sure it will be of consistent quality. However, given the direction of our program, it might be too much of a good thing. I'd make a WAG that even with no spoiler, this body might obsolete everything else we run... then again, maybe not.

• I looked up the car on the webz and from the one picture I found, it looks at least reasonably accurate.
• Early research shows that although it was entered in a race, it appears that it never actually raced. This bothers me to an extent.
• I imagine that there are any number of other prototype cars from the period, that possibly never saw the track or didn't race... etc.
• I'll have to consider the RULES stipulation as to whether or not cars that didn't ever race should be allowed.

So...

• I've asked Gene to order me a couple and I will test them whenever they show up.
• I'm sure this will take some time.
• If it tests equal to the other bodies we run, I'll consider it for approval.
• If it tests notably faster, then I probably won't (at least in the near term).

Remember our current rules philosophy...
 
We have kept our body rules stable for ten years and over that time, we have managed to avoid having a new product coming along to obsolete everything else. This has (FTMP) enabled us to avoid ever escalating technology chases. OTOH... if the crew would like to consider a change or modification to the standing rules philosophy, I'm glad to entertain the possibility. IAC, this would not happen overnight.

[MG Brown]

Although I do not have either a dog or a pony in this discussion, I did want to mention that the 1:1 McKee-Olds Turbo MK 14/1 did qualify for the Road America Can-Am but was withdrawn due to brake problems. An aerobrake (Much the same as the 1967 Indy Turbine Car) was tried during practice without sufficient results.
 
The McKee-Olds was entered in two other Can-Am races but was a Did Not Show. This I am told was due to John Beltz of GM being ordered to cease support of the project because of GM not wanting Oldsmobile to compete with the Chevrolet Division.

 
Source: Racing Sports Cars website (a most excellent source of sports car racing information) and Bob McKee.

 

The car HAS competed in vintage racing under the ownership of current owner Albert Way.
 
I mention this just to add additional information that may help your decision and not meaning to be argumentative.

[JimF]

Thanks for that additional info and I don't take it as argumentative at all. I was aware that the car had been entered at least once but had never raced (didn't know why). I'm willing to follow precedent on the subject but am not aware that any body that had never actually raced has ever been approved until this one.

[boxerdog]

I'm glad to see that you are testing new stuff. It seems like some supply channels are drying up, and 1-body races are boring. I like to run something different, but not if it's a significant disadvantage. 

 

The other thing is I have no clue which is which when it comes to the Heinz 57 flavors of TI-22, most of which I've never seen or didn't know what I was looking at.

 

The philosophy is sound and has worked well, at least until we run out of options.  It would be a shame if availability became an issue. 

[JimF]

Dave, thanks for that vote. For sure, availability seems to be at least a potential problem with a lot of stuff. More options that are comparable is a hedge against the fluctuating supply. I have some of these on the way but have no idea of delivery time. It may happen that they get here before mid-next week. If so, I'll try to get one set up on one of those newer Can Am frames along with the current standards and the newly approved (old) JK.

[Jay Guard]

Hey Jim:  

 

Regarding the McKee...

 

As a former (non-voting) IRRA board member I believe that more than the letter of the rules, the IRRA's BoD intent was to allow only Can-Am cars that were typical of the non-wing-improved cars of the early Can-Am series, and the McKee seems to fit that description. As MG said it did not only enter the Road America race but actually qualified mid-pack with the obvious intent to race. I believe it was quite a bit more than a prototype and it's career was cut short only due to the inter-corporate politics of the day.

 

Certainly your Retro Racing series is yours (and your racers) to control and I totally respect that, and therefore I am in no way trying to influence your decision as it does not affect me in any way. However, I too find it nice to have a possible option as opposed to the ubiquitous Ti22 and the only all too occasional Lola T163.  

 

Just my $.02 

[JimF]

Hi Jay......thanks for the input as to the possible rationale of the IRRA decision. I had never seen that explanation of intent before. This is possibly the only time that this has arisen as I can't think of another approved body that actually never raced. As I said, I'm willing to conform to the precedent assuming that the body can be configured via spoiler height to not become a game changer. I will test it soon I hope.

[John Streisguth]

Actually, O/S has a McKee that is on the approved list (I have never seen one  LOL). The Marcos Mantis (which had some popularity for  brief period) only started one race in which it was a DNF.  Toytech bodies used to be on the approved list, and IIRC correctly they had some oddballs in the line-up, possibly including a McKee. 

 

Jim, I definitely admire your dedication to keeping a level playing field with all the testing you do.  The hardest part seems to be when something become unavailable.

[Rotorranch]

Actually, O/S has a McKee that is on the approved list (I have never seen one  LOL). The Marcos Mantis (which had some popularity for  brief period) only started one race in which it was a DNF.  Toytech bodies used to be on the approved list, and IIRC correctly they had some oddballs in the line-up, possibly including a McKee. 
 
Jim, I definitely admire your dedication to keeping a level playing field with all the testing you do.  The hardest part seems to be when something become unavailable.

 
The Mckee bodies that are on the approved list is the McKee MK10 that Ralph Salyer and Charlie Hayes raced in 1968-69. It also raced in 1970. It was one of the first Can Am/ASR car's that used turbochargers.

Rotor

[JimF]

Actually, O/S has a McKee that is on the approved list (I have never seen one  LOL). The Marcos Mantis (which had some popularity for  brief period) only started one race in which it was a DNF.  Toytech bodies used to be on the approved list, and IIRC correctly they had some oddballs in the line-up, possibly including a McKee. 

 

Jim, I definitely admire your dedication to keeping a level playing field with all the testing you do.  The hardest part seems to be when something become unavailable.

 

As Rotor pointed out, the O/S was definitely a different car and in fact, TrueScale made one of those for about a minute as well. Your comment about availability is spot on. The occasional blips in the availability of Parma bodies, plus the reluctance of some of our racers to buy things over the phone or the web are among the reasons that I have recently begun to hedge my bets by trying to find other alternatives. I'm still trying to avoid having a single body dominant situation and thus have not approved the higher downforce Parmas for example.

 

Also, I have noticed a sharp decline in the quality of some Parma bodies of late. I don't know if that is indicative of lax QC, simply rushing the process, or whether the molds are already deteriorating.

[gc4895]

Really nice that Ralph Thorne continues to innovate. His other bodies are the bomb and this one looks great. Since its only available in 0.10 thickness I would say hes clearly addressing the concerns of the retro racing rule making crowd. Heck, its like two ended retro Hawks, retro as the day is long.

[JimF]

Agreed with the stipulation that it can't obsolete our current body assortment. If it is approximately equal (prob with no spoiler at all) then I'm inclined to approve. That is all pending evaluation and testing which will happen soon enough.

[Mark Wampler]

Actually, O/S has a McKee that is on the approved list (I have never seen one  LOL). The Marcos Mantis (which had some popularity for  brief period) only started one race in which it was a DNF.  Toytech bodies used to be on the approved list, and IIRC correctly they had some oddballs in the line-up, possibly including a McKee. 

 

Jim, I definitely admire your dedication to keeping a level playing field with all the testing you do.  The hardest part seems to be when something become unavailable.

 

 

Steve @ Toytech does have the McKee body as well as the Marcos Mantis.  One of our racers used the McKee  it on occasion.  Steve allows ALL CanAm bodies in the franchise on into the 70's.  That's just us though.   I wish you all well.  My opinion is to stay with 1969 and earlier CanAm versions.  The McKee doesn't appear to have any significant down force features that would disallow it,  IMO..

[Jay Guard]

FYI... I split the braid discussion into a new thread titled, "Braid Issues".

[Tim Neja]

A question for NASCAR bodies?  Which OS body has the best rear spoiler?  What's the body of choice for this class?

[JimF]

The two Parmas that are currently available (1040C & 1061C) are a tossup. Of the O/S ones there was a '68 Charger, a Fairlane, and a slightly more recent Talledega that all had at least "some" spoiler. There may have been others.

 

Be forewarned, even if you could find some, the O/S bodies might not be even close to the .015 minimum thickness.