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PS4002FK motor timing can be changed


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#1 dalek

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 08:23 AM

The timing of a sealed PS4002FK motor (and any other motor that has removable brush hoods), can be changed by elongating the brush hood holes and/or by cutting off one edge of the plastic nubs that the hood screws go through. These modifications would allow moving the brush hoods in relation to the commutator.




#2 TG Racing

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 08:30 AM

And this is legal where?


Thom Greene

#3 Racer36

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:38 AM

Not exactly legal, but certainly not a news flash. People have been doing this since the very first sealed motor.
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Dennis Dominey

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#4 NY Nick

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 10:20 AM

And other things, like holding the stocks and turning the arm (gear side).

This is done without removing the hardware.

I know someone that was a master at it.


Nick Cerulli

#5 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 10:22 AM

Dale,

When someone makes a post like the above, it is usually for a specific reason, i.e. politicing with rulesmakers.

So what is the point of your post?
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Mike Swiss
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#6 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 03:58 PM

IMHO One point of the post might be having a tech person who really looks at the motor. I have seen many a massaged motor breeze through tech. The tech person never even took a look at the motor except to see if was the motor being allowed in the car.

 

Just sayin might be a good idea to really take a look at the motor. 

 

Regards, 

GVP 


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#7 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 05:02 PM

What do the rules allow? No tampering with the brush hoods? Anything except breaking the seal?
Yortuk & Georg Festrunk

#8 Richard G With

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 06:32 PM

The R.E.T.R.O. rules as used at Dallas and other areas would make this illegal via the "no other modifications allowed to the motor" clause. I say it's a

clear modification because trimming of the endbell plastic is implied.

 

Having said that, it would take a very thorough tech inspector to catch it. But I echo Swiss: what's the point of the OP? Is there a specific incident or

person being called out? What rule set is involved?

 

I realize and accept that some messing about with this motor is possible, but it's well suited to the Dallas Slot Cars retro program on their flat track. I don't believe that

cheating is rampant there, though tech inspection is sometimes a little lax.

 

If this is an attempt to discredit the PSFK, it seems to me that the "trick" mentioned by NY Nick above would be just as applicable to "tamper proof" motors like the JK Retro Hawk.


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We must all do what we must do, for if we do not, then what we must do does not get done.  Chung Mee

      Parkes, W. (Producer) & Meyer, N. (Director). (1985). Volunteers.[Motion picture]. United States: HBO.

 


#9 MSwiss

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 08:07 AM

Dale just posted on his guide angle thread, and hit the road.

As I suspected, this thread apparently was just a subliminal message to one of his local tech inspectors. Lol
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Mike Swiss
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#10 dalek

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 08:36 AM

Dale just posted on his guide angle thread, and hit the road.

As I suspected, this thread apparently was just a subliminal message to one of his local tech inspectors. Lol

 

Patience, Mr. Swiss, patience. LOL
 
I'm the OP.  
 
One reason for this thread was to make everyone aware of this area of possible tinkering, in regard to motors with removable brush hoods.  I don't recall ever reading or hearing about this issue.  If a few people were aware of it, then I believe everyone should be aware of it so they can make informed decisions regarding what motors they will allow.
 
I chose to put PS4002FK in the subject line because it's a sealed motor, it's commonly used, and the name would help grab people's attention.  I'm not singling out the PS4002FK.
 
The PS4002FK and the JK Hawk 6 are both allowed in some of the classes at my local raceway and in the Florida Slot Car Series.  I have several of each of these motors.
 
To be honest, the more I've worked with them, the less enchanted I've become.  I've had the occasional very good one, and the upside is that they tend to stay good for many races.  But overall, and the P-1 Raceway owner agrees with me, their power output, from one motor to the next, is not as consistent as motors such as the JK Hawk Retro.  
 
I believe it's common knowledge that the brush hoods (too big for the brushes) and the hood alignment, of both of the mentioned motors, are a joke.  It's no wonder that, if for no other reason than this, that the performance is inconsistent.  And now, the PS4002FK price is $19.50.
 
Personally, I would like to see these motors fazed out of the racing I'm involved in.  I see more cons than pros, by allowing them.  Being able to tinker with the timing is just one more con.

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#11 MSwiss

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 08:46 AM

Dale,
Thanks for finishing your post.

Slotbloggers are always eager to answer questions, offer their opinions, etc.

But I could tell they were frustrated by your half post.

In the future, maybe just save your partial thought as a draft, and make your whole post when you are able to.

You're obviously good with a computer, and able to do that.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#12 Fast Freddie

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 03:31 PM

Such  crude ways of adjusting the timing.  You guys need to catch up.  If you can align the brush hoods you can, so to speak, misalign them, not hard to do and not illegal because brush alignment is legal. This has been done since the early 90s maybe even before.
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Fred Younkin

#13 MSwiss

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 03:38 PM

Yes, and the tech director doesn't have to pass your car.

It's up to the racer to bring a legal car up to tech.

IOW, if you brought a Retro car up to tech, with .740" front tires, insisting that's how they came out of the tube, that wouldn't justify, getting passed through tech.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#14 old & gray

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 06:37 PM

In so many ways this reminds me of the crew member at the local short track. As the tech inspector is crawling out from under a car a lone voice in the crowd remarks If you hold a magnet next to the drive shaft you can tell if its made of aluminum. Just saying ya know.
Bob Schlain

#15 Pablo

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 08:54 PM

The timing of a sealed PS4002FK motor (and any other motor that has removable brush hoods), can be changed by elongating the brush hood holes and/or by cutting off one edge of the plastic nubs that the hood screws go through. These modifications would allow moving the brush hoods in relation to the commutator.

This news is so old I'm depressed anybody replied to it. Why does a bent axle make my car handle bad? I just can't figure why...….


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