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Dallas Jackson vintage 16D Grand Prix


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 07:03 PM

Red Valentine obtained this from Dallas' collection and placed it in my hands to do with it whatever I see fit. It may be some time before I decide what to do with it but I promise I'll do the right thing.

 

I recognize the motor as one I refurbed/blueprinted a while back for Dallas. Looks like he never fully built it up into a complete car. I'll be proud to finish it

 

IMG_2662.JPG

 

The drop arm weight is interesting

 

IMG_2663.JPG


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Paul Wolcott




#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 09:52 PM

Do you know if Dallas built that F1 chassis? Whoever built it, did a fine job. :)

 

What's the engraving on the round droparm weight? Just some numbers?

 

What's the latest word on Dallas's health. The last I heard, he was no longer at home.


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#3 Pablo

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 10:49 PM

Excellent questions, Sir, but I don't have answers. Hopefully Red Valantine will chime in.

For now, it's in a good place, guarded 24/7 by the best slot car security system ever, invented by God

 

IMG_3326.JPG

 

 


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#4 bluecars

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 12:01 PM

Dallas is in facility for dementia patients and not doing well. Few good days but mostly bad. I know I really miss him.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#5 Pablo

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:16 PM

I miss him, too, and forgive me for being harsh on my evaluations. Somebody had to do it. I refurbed a 16D motor for Dallas years ago, with the intention of him putting it in this car. When it left the Wolcott Ranch, it was in great shape. That was the end of my involvement.

 

Apparently he installed a 48 P angled pinion and used self tapping screws to install it to this chassis. Probably used acid and no cleanup. Not a good installation. This is how it looks now:

 

IMG_4041.JPG

 

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IMG_4043.JPG

 

The good news is, once I clean it up, I'll have a Pablo refurbed motor, nice and tight, never run. Nothing wrong with it, other than the dirt, corrosion, and a few melted spots  :shok:

 

The chassis may actually be salvageable, it has a lot of good things going for it. We shall see ……..


Paul Wolcott

#6 Pablo

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:42 PM

Looks like the comm was kept "well oiled". I wish I had insisted on doing the complete car refurb, that way at least it would have run well first time out.

 

IMG_4048.JPG


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#7 bluecars

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 05:43 PM

I think Dallas was in a lot worse shape than anyone really knew. The last few years of his racing and building showed that but it never stop his want to be part of what was going on. 


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#8 Pablo

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:31 PM

Well said, Sir  :good: Both chassis and motor on this one are worth fixing. I've been working on the motor. The chassis has enough weight down low to handle a lot of horsepower.


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#9 Pablo

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:35 PM

The good news is, once I clean it up, I'll have a Pablo refurbed motor, nice and tight, never run. Nothing wrong with it, other than the dirt, corrosion, and a few melted spots  :shok:

I retract that statement. The deeper I looked into the motor, the more acid nastiness I found. She is going to get a full makeover, including a new Slick 7 can bushing. I repainted the can, too. I may even put a nicer arm in it to go along with a new EB...…..for now, the can paint dries as I turn my attention to the chassis...….

 

Red, this one is going to be built up and it's yours. My basic intention is to make a vintage car you can thrash and not be afraid to break priceless parts - everything will be either replaceable, or fixable  :)


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#10 bluecars

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:52 PM

Thank you Pablo. You know I will treasure it for more than one reason. :drinks:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#11 Pablo

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:00 PM

WB is 3 7/8", GL 13/16, and when I went to measure the width, I realized the entire left side set of rails are way off

 

IMG_4051.JPG

 

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Front axle tubes need to come off, and the entire left rail set completely removed and re-set. If I can make this thing work, it will be a miracle ……..


Paul Wolcott

#12 Rotorranch

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:06 PM

Maybe it was supposed to be offset?

 

Rotor


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#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:23 PM

You might want to rethink that Slick 7 can bushing, if it's intended to actually run that motor. :)


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#14 Pablo

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:37 PM

Rotor: offset for what, a right handed oval?  :laugh2:

 

Bill, what's wrong with Slick 7 bushings?  :wacko2:


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#15 Pablo

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:32 PM

Front axle tubes removed. Surprize, surprise, once I started solder-sucking, it became evident there was a desperate attempt to improve handling by melting solder on the drop arm weight and the tongue

 

IMG_4062.JPG


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#16 tonyp

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:54 PM

Rotor: offset for what, a right handed oval?  :laugh2:
 
Bill, what's wrong with Slick 7 bushings?  :wacko2:


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#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:56 PM

Slick 7 bushings for axles usually work great, if kept lubricated. I've used them since 1996.I have had a pair of these seize up, while breaking in gears on a power supply, & lubricated with Slick 7's synthetic Glidex. I went back to using Champion's synthetic oil on bushings. Motor arms run at much higher RPM's than do axles & the oil film on a Slick 7 motor bushing is apt to not provide continued lubrication for very long. I have had a few Slick 7 motor bushings, & use them with arm timing gauges.. The lubrication problem with Slick 7's motor bushings has been well-known for about 20 yrs. If you want to prove it wrong, go ahead. I will agree than a Slick 7 motor bushing looks prettier than any oilite bushing. :)


Bill Fernald
 

I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 


#18 Pablo

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 07:29 PM

I still think I can save the chassis. Both rail sets are bent in several places so I completely removed them and intend to make new rails

 

IMG_4073.JPG

 

Left side rear axle tube is so badly damaged, I might as well replace both tubes

 

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Drop arm is true, flat, and cleaned up real nice. The big round brass weight is actually twin brass washers soldered together. The engraving on the top is "1965"

 

IMG_4074.JPG

 

IMG_4076.JPG


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:59 PM

I tried real hard to salvage the motor bracket. Sorry to say it's just too bent in too many places to be saved. So my plan is to take 2 Castleton brackets, slice the screw attachment holes open, double up the faces, and go from there.

 

I found a nicely painted Lotus 49 body that I hope will work. You can see my EB choice is a new Champion, fully Pablo-ized and blueprinted with modern hardware and a BB

 

IMG_4080.JPG


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#20 Jaeger Team

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 06:38 PM

You can see my EB choice is a new Champion, fully Pablo-ized and blueprinted with modern hardware and a BB

 

 

 

I would have preferred to save brush hoods & pent roofs probably more consistent with something on which it was engraved "1965". Just my two cents :)


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 07:41 PM

I agree, when you put it like that :victory:  But I never said it was going to be period correct, I said it was intended to be something to be run and thrashed without worrying about breaking antique parts. Everything will be replaceable. It's Red's car and I'll do whatever he wants. But I get the impression he would enjoy running the wheels off it without worrying about expensive repairs. It's "modern parts meeting vintage memorabilia" kind of thing  :D

 

And, as long as you have me talking, the vintage arm will probably get labeled "needs refurb", get thrown back in the "armature drawer of horrors", and a new Pro-Slot custom built 16D endbell drive arm installed in the freshly painted can with new Slick 7 bushing  :dance3:

 

I want to give Red back something he can hammer around a track and remember Dallas Jackson. The 36D anglewinder was a failure. This one will be a workhorse.  :sun_bespectacled:


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 07:07 PM

As a reminder why I'm doubling the bracket face, here is a pic of what happens to these Champion 16D EB's when the bushing flange protrudes further (about 40 thou) than the mounting face. This is the original EB that was screwed into the original bracket. Instead of the screw holding the bracket tight to the EB, it meets and distorts the flange instead. Causing the bushing to be tweaked. So what was once a perfectly set up aligned motor becomes ruined

 

IMG_4091.JPG

 

Here is my doubler, ready for soldering. 25 thou X 2 = 50 thou thick

 

IMG_4092.JPG

 


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#23 Bill from NH

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:03 PM

If I built that endbell, I would have cut semi-circles in the bushing flange to clear the screw heads or simply turned the screw head diameter down smaller so they didn't interfere with the flange. 


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:04 AM

Turning down the screw heads won't work. Here's the math:

screw hole distance .395, flange OD .323, screw hole ID .063

.395-.323=.072/2=.036 screw head radius X 2= .072 screw head OD

.063 screw OD - .072 screw head OD = .009/2=.0045 head overlap

 

Please double check my math, but that seems to be a lot of work to end up with a screw head less than 5 thou larger than the screw shaft.

 

As far as trimming the flange to clear the screws, that probably requires tools I don't have, may or may not conflict with the bushing or BB, and weaken it.

 

So I don't agree but you may do yours however you want. A doubler also strengthens the Castleton face which is very soft flimsy 25 thou brass; it needs all the bracing it can get.


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#25 Bill from NH

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:46 PM

Your way works. I never said my way was better, just if I had to work with those same parts, I would have done it differently. My easiest way would be to use .040-.050 axle spaces on the mounting screws to offset the heads.


Bill Fernald
 

I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 






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