317 replies to this topic

[Cheater]

Greg needs a 1 week suspension, from posting, for using golf in any kind of argument or comparison to 1/24 slot racing.

I wasn't comparing golf to slot racing.

I was refuting the oft-cited assertion that the cost of the venue is a determining factor in the success of a leisure-time activity. ("You don't need a big wooden track for R/C cars.")

Sure, the golf industry is huge by monetary measurement but very little of that money goes into the pockets of the people and entities that own the golf courses (although most do have pro shops, I strongly suspect most golf gear is purchased elsewhere. Sound familiar?).

And I would claim that participation brought big money into golf, rather than big money bringing the participation.

[MSwiss]

Please quit talking about golf.

It's been around since the 15th century and the 18-hole "round" was created at the Old Course at St Andrews, in 1764.

[Brian Czeiner]

Mass-market advertising is not the way: such a small percentage of people will be interested that the vast majority of your advertising dollars will be wasted. What is the answer? I wish I knew.

 
The Facebook post boost reduces wasted money with its zip code radius and key word interest targeting. A store would be presented to someone who is actually interested in some form of racing or cars instead of a soccer mom. Using the zip code radius you advertise to people with in 50 miles or less by reducing the radius miles. Or as we have done, choose two cities 50 miles away east and west and have two boosts over lap the central zip code but extending your reach for the same cost. How far will people travel is a guess. But the option is there for a store to try. 
 
By using the target words, if you wanted to promote parties, you could focus in on 'stay at home mom' customers. You can use anything as target words, Boy Scouts, works at home, self-employed, remote control, go carts. The choices are endless if you think about your desired customer's point of view.
 
Lastly, a boost can be for as little as $5. We generally run a $20 boost over two or three days during the weekend or holidays when people are home and looking at their phone. We watch the weather report looking for rainy weekends when people are stuck inside. A $20 investment is tiny compared to a few hundred from traditional advertising. Even a once-a month-boost only equates to $240 a year which is still far less than even a single car event or coupon book. The boosted post could contain a limited time code for a monthly special of track time for new customers, discount or even a sale. It would be flexible to the store owner's situation and imagination.

A store might raffle off items and use that profit to finance his boosting budget. Perhaps even use the raffle for subject matter of the boost? Maybe manufacturers or builders could donate items to raffle for the store's advertising budget instead of free race prizes. Most of us have donated product for charity raffles or prizes. Why not do it to help promote the stores of our own hobby?

[Aeropro]

"The Facebook post boost reduces wasted money with its zip code radius and key word interest targeting. "

Brian,

Bingo. Today most people (especially younger people) live on social media. Learning how to get the message out where younger people gather is the key (and I am certainly no expert on that!) How to convince them that REAL reality is better than virtual reality may be another matter. I got the Forza Gran Tourismo game for my Playstation, and guess what: while the graphics were amazing, very soon I found it boring. Sitting there by myself and "competing" against a computer, I soon was asking myself "so what?"  I wonder if we can get Super Mario Brothers racing slot cars instead of go-carts?

[MattD]

Has anybody realized the overwhelming  theme here?

[jimht]

Yeah, if you make it they will come.

 

No they won't. Eternal optimism...unfounded.

 

Anyone noticed a "slight" decline in Hobby Shops of all kinds even though the population keeps increasing?

 

A sinking ship allows you to enjoy swimming for a while.

[MattD]

The overwhelming theme is all these different ways to publicize and attract new racers, just do not attract many new racers.    Just may be there is no way to grow slot car racing with "new" fans.    It is possible to get older gear heads like us interested.  Most of the guys that I race with are hotrodders and only a few of them ever ran a real slot  car before 4-5 years ago and I got them interested.  

 

Bottom line is that us old guys have fun now.   I don't think there is way to keep commercial racing alive in 15-20 years, but probably the growth in 1/32 basement  racers will keep that alive after the commercial scene is gone.

[Pappy]

To anyone's knowledge, has anyone ever tried a commercial raceway catering to only 1/32 scale cars using eight lane tracks with 3 1/2" lane spacing and using hardbodied cars that actually look like cars?

[MSwiss]

A 1/32 only raceway, opened in California, a few years back.

It looked very nice.

I think they have closed.

Maybe someone can confirm that.

A 1/32 only raceway, opened 12 years ago, about 1/4 mile from here.

I discussed it a bit, in a similar thread to this one, about 2-3 months ago.

Here's my post.

Interesting you brought up bowling.

About a 1/4 mile west of me is Suburbanite Bowl.

My wife and I, sometimes go there on Friday night, after I close up.

Neither of us is very good, but we still have fun.

I sometimes see guys wheeling in some sort of tall contraption, that looks like it holds at least 4 balls.

They are obviously real serious.

But at a family event there, back in the winter, I snuck away from the raceway long enough, to notice that catering to young children is such a component to their business, that at least on the lanes my wife, and grandkids, were on, they had bowler controllable, flip up bumpers, so adults and kids, could bowl at the same time.

I equate that to the adjustable power on my King, where a 3 year old will be 6V, on Orange, with zero chance of coming off, while an enthusiast is testing/practicing, on White, on 12.5V, without any drama.

Coincidentally, Suburbanite Bowl also rented a space, in a basement room, to someone who operated a slot racing facility there, about 12 years ago.

It was four, 4 lane, snap-together track, layouts, with absolutely beautiful scenery, with different themes.

They're charged real high prices, for casual fun and birthday parties. 

I'm about 98% sure they didn't last a year.

Here's some chit chat about it, and it's viability to the local 1/32 racers, for more serious fun.

http://www.slotcaril...ed-alley-racing

[Tim Neja]

There is a commercial 1/32 hard body raceway in SoCal--Pasadena I believe.  And the Farr Out slot racing club--1/32 scale has been going STRONG in LA and the valley for YEARS now!!  There are several members that have devoted time to build ROUTED tracks for their racing enjoyment and the club rotates their racing throughout these tracks.  Very successful and very FUN!! It CAN be done with a few dedicated players---and THAT is the future of slot racing!  The commercial track is going to go the way of the Dodo birds and the Dynasours once us "old fart" racers age out of the hobby!! It's inevitable!!

[Pappy]

I'm not talking about a four lane club or plastic track. A commercial raceway with eight lane wood tracks with about a 100' to 110' running surface. I don't think I've ever seen one. A six lane track would be acceptable. We've run our 1/32 scale cars on commercial King tracks and Hillclimbs. The straightaways are to long, the turns are to wide or the lane spacing is to far apart to be fun for 1/32 scale hardbodied cars. We like twisty road courses like the one we use in the Michigan 24.

[Bob Kolenda]

A page back Mike Swiss talked about handing out a flyer at a car show to a member of a VW club.I know there are many car clubs out there that hold regular meetings to talk about cars and club business.Our shop used to host the local Alfa club for their quarterly meeting. We were a auto specialty shop.Perhaps  hosting one of their clubs would promote your business after all car guys are car guys whether big or small.

[rvec]

To anyone's knowledge, has anyone ever tried a commercial raceway catering to only 1/32 scale cars using eight lane tracks with 3 1/2" lane spacing and using hardbodied cars that actually look like cars?

Yes - Sidewinder Raceway in Sac. CA. The tracks were great and the owners knowledgeable. The Track was open for about 5 years. Good crowds of at least 20+ racers every week and a brisk sales business. The owners claimed to be making some money (I do not doubt it). Apparently it was not enough. The track closed sometime last year. Here is a link to an article I wrote about them. Check it out to see the great looking tracks, cars and racing action. So sorry to see them go.

 

http://slotblog.net/...dewinder-13118/

[Pappy]

Thanks Rich, this is exactly what I was looking for. Five years is a lot longer than most commercial raceways stay open. It would be nice to know the reason they closed. There's nothing more beautiful than a showcase full of 1/32 scale cars in plastic boxes that look like real cars.

 

I think if you're going to do a 1/32 scale commercial track you need to offer wood tracks with at least four, preferably six lanes that are longer than most home tracks. Otherwise just go to someone's house and save on track time and race fees. I've seen 1/32 scale commercial raceways that use plastic track but it's not the same. I've also seen commercial raceways where the track layout is on a big table and you can't marshal about half the track and when someone comes off they stop the race and get out the big tweezers to put it back on. A pain in the rear and not much fun. 

[MSwiss]

I'm not talking about a four lane club or plastic track. A commercial raceway with eight lane wood tracks with about a 100' to 110' running surface. I don't think I've ever seen one. A six lane track would be acceptable. We've run our 1/32 scale cars on commercial King tracks and Hillclimbs. The straightaways are to long, the turns are to wide or the lane spacing is to far apart to be fun for 1/32 scale hardbodied cars. We like twisty road courses like the one we use in the Michigan 24.

Edit-Butch, I didn't see your new post, when I made mine, but it looks like I addressed some of it.

Rich identified the track in California, I was thinking of, Sidewinder.

Not 8 lanes, but it sounds like the concept, you are getting at.

The same guys you raced against, in the 24 Hour Enduro, had an event by me, in the Winter.

FWIW, the one who I talk with, the most, said my flat track is more challenging than the enduro, both driving, and set-up, because it is all flat.

It would great to have them more often, but they have great tracks on their home circuit, so I'm happy to have them whenever I can.

Back to Sidewinder, while 20 guys sounds good, but if that was once or twice a week, I can see why they closed.

I think focusing on one type of racing, or a single focus on what you are promoting, is a mistake.

Everyone is welcome at my raceway, and I'll fit you in, the best I can.

[Cheater]

I think focusing on one type of racing, or a single focus on what you are promoting, is a mistake.

A mistake almost every raceway owner has made. You're one of the very few who seems to 'get it,' Mike.

But what I notice is that virtually every post in this thread is focussed on how to make a single raceway viable. Seems almost everyone has forgotten (is is neglecting) the OP's question:

"What will it take to see growth in this hobby?"

Does anyone truly believe that "growth in this hobby" can be created by finding a formula (or formulas) that results in a few profitable raceways? Or by a few raceways embracing social media as the best promotional channel?

[Pappy]

Does anyone truly believe that "growth in this hobby" can be created by finding a formula (or formulas) that results in a few profitable raceways?

Duh! You got to start somewhere. A few profitable raceways could lead to a bunch of profitable raceways. Did McDonald's start off with a 1,000 stores?
 
Mike, I always did think your flat track would be a lot of fun for 1/32 home set cars. Do you promote it?
 
The guys in the Great Lakes Slot Car Club are great at setting up cars. They were turning 6.5 second laps on my track in just a few hours, most guys never get there. A car out of the box usually isn't very good but they can be made to run great. Talk to Denny, Larry and Rich at Great Lakes they'll get you going.

[Cheater]

A few profitable raceways could lead to a bunch of profitable raceways. Did McDonald's start off with a 1,000 stores?

That's a terrible comparison, Butch.

No, a few profitable raceways would not lead to a bunch of profitable raceways unless the subsequent raceway owners were sharp enough to replicate the formula that generated the first profitable raceway. The chances of that happening with unrelated and independent owners is as close to zero as anything ever gets.

What got McDonald's to 35,000+ restaurants was leadership, standardization, and direction. And non-stop testing to find out what sold best.

[Don Wedding]

OK, guys, I've got it, topless female turn marshalls. The money would be made in parts and smashed-up cars.

[MSwiss]

Greg,
 
Just when I didn't think anyone could come up with a worse comparison than golf, Pappy manages to top you with comparing it to McDonalds. LOL.

Food is something you're involved with everyday.

Slot racing is a hobby.

Pappy,
 
I know those guys real well.

Denny buys his non-1/32-centric stuff, like Hudys and power supplies, from me.

They are great guys and great racers. They come by, they have a great time, and then they go back to doing, what they do. Denny has a top-notch, routed, 80-110 ft. track in his house. With their club being much smaller, the allure of an eight-lane track, isn't as big.

Years ago, when they had 30-35 pretty hard core guys, running by me, was more of a treat. They had periodic events by me, with 20-24 guys.

I can still remember, in Lagrange, one of the top dogs beaming to one of the other fast guys. "This is great. We never get to have you, me, Rich, Voodoo, Neal, etc ., etc., all racing against each other, at the same time".

I volunteered, "You guys are welcome whenever you want." I charged them $10 each, back then, and they had three-four races. This last time, in the winter, I charged them $15, for four races. I'm certainly not soaking them for $$$.

I guess there is a charm to being a member of a club.

[MattD]

I'll keep giving my opinions till I get banned/canned!     
 
If you want to see growth, I suggest you forget 1/24 altogether. Put the focus on 1/32 plastic basement tracks and routed 1/32 club tracks. If there is to be worthwhile growth, it is going to be in this sector. 
 
1/24 commercial is only going to get smaller. I'm sorry, but all the hopes and wishes in the world are not going to provide the answer to how a standalone commercial raceway can stay in business and provide the owner with adequate income to buy a home, cars, and support a middle-class lifestyle. How many track owners in the US can actually support a family with the income from a raceway? How many owners are retired with pensions or have a separate full-time job or a wife with a good paying job and insurance?

[Pappy]

That's a terrible comparison, Butch.

 

I think you're wrong; it's a good comparison. Do you know what the failure rate of restaurants is? I copied and pasted this right from the internet. 
 
"Which probably explains why the restaurant failure rate is at 60% in the first year. And 80% of restaurants don't make it past four years. It's often because they're ignoring one or many of the signs arestaurant is failing, or they're making a variety of mistakes."
 
80% failure rate and it would probably be higher if it weren't for franchisers like McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, or Taco Bell.
 
If someone came up with a good business plan and made a raceway profitable why couldn't they open more raceways or franchise raceways? It's exactly what McDonalds did. But if a franchisee thinks he's smarter than McDonalds he's going to fail.
 
Swiss, you missed the point. I'm not saying a raceway would be as profitable as a McDonald's but that if someone came up with a way to make them profitable that the hobby could grow.

[MSwiss]

I get it.

My point is slot racing is so niche, vs. selling food, I doubt anyone could come up with a set formula.

IOW, each raceway's set of circumstances is different, and needs to adapt accordingly.

[jimht]

Pappy commented: "if someone came up with a way to make them profitable"

 

it's not as if thousands of Raceways haven't made an effort to be profitable since the Sixties fad.

 

If there were a singular magic bullet for making moneymakers out of monstrous 8 lane wooden tracks and racing on them, we'd have it by now.

 

Almost all the attempts have been stand-alone businesses responsible for tooting their own horn in their own market, little or no promotional help coming from elsewhere.

 

Remember, all Raceways live off everyone's spare change and it's hard to find that customer with spare change near to/walking into most Raceway locations.

 

We focus on a market mostly involved for a short time: kids 7-12, (who quit for obvious reasons) single adults 20-30, (who also quit for the same obvious reasons) and our best customer...retrobates who did it in the Sixties and never really quit.

 

As far as everyone else, we're way outclassed by our competition for the amusement dollar...we're in the position of selling iceboxes to Eskimos who already have iceboxes in case of warm weather: "I've already got too many Hobbies, toys, thing to do for fun, ad infinitum".

 

My opinion, (and others here have said the same), the biggest chance for success is with several small tracks (4-6 lanes and straights no more than 25 feet), realistic cars (that aren't insanely fast) in an expensive location that has plenty of walk-in customers...a mix of retail sales, rentals, parties and organized racing with the last being the least profitable of the bunch ("serious" races a couple of nights a week, never on the weekends).

 

Anyone know of any Raceway like that?

[Pappy]

My point is slot racing is so niche, vs. selling food, I doubt anyone could come up with a set formula.

It is a niche but the competition is a lot less. 
 
We keep saying that slot racing is dying and that the manufacturers don't have a good business plan. The only ones that don't have a good business plan are the ones who cater to 1/24 scale commercial type speed crazed moron cars.

The manufacturers of 1/32 scale home sets have figured out that the basement dweller is their market which is why they sell tracks to race their cars on. It's also why new car brands keep popping up.