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Retro Can-Am rules


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#1 GT40

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 11:45 PM

Are the SCRRA rules for 2015 the most recent update?

 

And, in particular, are the ground clearance rules still .015" inch in front and .050" inch at the rear?

 

Thanks!


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#2 Bryan Warmack

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Posted Yesterday, 12:28 AM

Steve,

Yes, the 2015 SCRRA rules are the most recent and still valid. The ground clearance rules are still .015" front and .050" rear. 

With the exception of a couple new bodies the rules haven't changed since the last time you've been down to BPR.   :)
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#3 Tex

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Posted Yesterday, 10:37 AM

As an FYI for Steve and anyone else, Can-Am ground clearance is .015" front and .050" rear in all Retro organizations (to the best of my knowledge).

 

Most Retro rules are 95% identical, all having stemmed from the same original SoCal D3 rules (now SCRRA). Biggest differences to look out for when going racing under another org is motor, weight limit, and bodies.


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#4 Cheater

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Posted Yesterday, 06:41 PM

Most Retro rules are 95% identical...


A truism which is a rather sad commentary... and indicative of the history of the little (and shrinking) 1/24 hobby.

Gregory Wells

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#5 Rotorranch

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Posted Yesterday, 07:08 PM

So, maybe we go back to the formula that worked in the '60s?
 
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#6 SpeedyNH

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Posted Yesterday, 07:21 PM

In the '60s, my club had nine classes across both scales, and they all had their own similar rule sets.

 

The good old days! I still have a few of 'em.


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#7 Cheater

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Posted Yesterday, 07:52 PM

So, maybe we go back to the formula that worked in the '60s?


My point is that there are demonstrable benefits that accrue from having everyone across the country use the same rules for the same class.

But there are numerous groups and series promoters who feel that inserting local 'tweaks' or preferences serve their purposes better, although I sincerely doubt that the results (in terms of participation numbers) actually support such opinions.

Surely I am not the only person who remembers the old saw "we know best what our local racers want to race." Or the one that "common rules won't do any good because most racers don't travel."

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#8 Tex

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Posted Yesterday, 08:32 PM

I don't see a problem that needs fixing.

 

If I wanna race IRRA® (hope to do the 2020 Sano), I slap in a different motor and make sure my car weighs 100 grams... no sweat.


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Richard L. Hofer

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#9 Alan Dodson

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Posted Yesterday, 09:23 PM

And maybe change some front wheels on your F1 car! And hope that your one motor is as good as the one that the guy who owns 50 or 100 of them picks to race with! And come up with a stock car, because they don't run them where you race! And sometimes if your car was jigged with a PS 4002FK motor, a Hawk Retro motor will hang below the frame rails because it's just a wee bit longer!

I agree with Cheater, it would be nice if everyone ran the same ruleset.
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#10 Tex

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Posted Today, 07:40 AM

It would be nice, but they don't.

 

In the beginning, there was just one ruleset that everyone used as their model to start from... the SoCal D3 rules. From there, everyone including IRRA®, deviated to make their own rules to suit themselves.


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Richard L. Hofer

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#11 Cheater

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Posted Today, 07:54 AM

Tex,

Your comment: "IRRA®... deviated to make their own rules to suit themselves" is not only unfair but is also inaccurate.

The IRRA® rules were indeed based on the original Retro concept that arose in SoCal, but they were not developed to "suit" anyone. They were developed specifically to maximize the attraction of and participation in Retro racing across the country and even the world.

This was something the D3 group, as it was, told us repeatedly they had no interest in doing. "We just want to race what we race at BPR." The IRRA® BoD had a much larger vision and purpose.

It just blows my mind that even though the benefits of having everyone 'on the same page' rules-wise have been IMO clearly demonstrated for over a decade now, many seem to feel it's not important. If the horse doesn't want to drink...


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Gregory Wells

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#12 Cheater

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Posted Today, 08:27 AM

And I really should mention that it was Mike Swiss who started the ball rolling for a single Retro ruleset when he decided to hold the first Sano event in 2007. His concept was to meld together the two or three different Retro rulesets being used in various parts of the country so that everyone could come race without making lots of changes to their existing Retro cars. 

The support that race received was the springboard that led to IRRA®.


Gregory Wells

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#13 Noose

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Posted Today, 08:44 AM

I still have the spreadsheet I developed that showed all the rules that was used at the first Sano to form the IRRA® rule set.

It was an inclusive rule set so anyone from one region could race in another and not change anything.

The first diversion was by SCRRA in allowing A frame F1 front chassis set-ups.


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#14 MSwiss

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Posted Today, 08:44 AM

Yes, the thought was to get both coasts together to hammer out one universal set of rules.

Mike Steube originally planned to come and PdL also expressed interest.

Mike said his employer wasn't going to allow him to take off and PdL didn't come, so instead of a discussion about a universal ruleset, the IRRA® was formed.


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#15 Tex

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Posted Today, 09:14 AM

The first diversion was by SCRRA in allowing A frame F1 front chassis set-ups.

 

I did not know that.


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#16 Shooter7mustang

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Posted Today, 09:23 AM

Personally I prefer IRRA® rules for a few different reasons. Number one. the motor options and the freedom to experiment with different combinations of pinion and spur gears. Not a fan of rules limiting me to one motor and one size pinion.

 

If I am planning on traveling to special event race and there were two 'big' races in two different states on the same day, I'm heading to the race using IRRA® rules. Just my personal preference.


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#17 S.O. Watt

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Posted Today, 10:55 AM

As a chassis builder, the rules are all close enough for me. I pay no attention to “A frame” skinny cars nor light weight (under 100 grams) all-up weight as that market is too small and specialized. The .008" size difference in cans doesn’t change how any of my chassis are built, non-hypoid solves that issue.

Changing motor or gears is really quite easy.

The 95% plus is AOK.


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#18 bbr

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Posted Today, 12:42 PM

The rule set in different areas is not that much different, but if you are not building and tuning to those rules you will not be competitive. There lies the rub, for those that like traveling to races outside their area, a whole set of cars are required, this make it difficult for those that would like to visit other areas but are confronted with building a new fleet of cars to race.


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#19 eshorer

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Posted Today, 01:23 PM

I dunno, Mike. It looks like Dale, Duran, and Alex did more than OK at the last RetroPalooza, using IRRA® rules. Yes, they built and tuned specifically for those races, but they (and the others who travel there, from as far away as Tokyo), are doing it more for the racing experience, which includes the participants and the raceway.

 

I'm guessing it's less the SCRRA rules than it is the raceway, that prevents the attendance we had in SoCal years ago. 

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#20 bbr

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Posted Today, 02:17 PM

"Yes, they built and tuned specifically for those races"

 

Dale preped a complete set of cars to race back east, that he does not race at BPR.

 

Tokyo racers do not embrace west coast rules so they don't race at BPR anymore?

 

East coast guys will not come to BPR anymore because they need a lightwt CA to be fast?

 

Guys that have the means and time will travel and prep cars, everyone else not so much

 

Point is, it is difficult for someone to invest time, cars and $ for just one race. If we were all racing under the same ruleset, it would not be that difficult


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#21 eshorer

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Posted Today, 02:49 PM

But Mike, my point was that the guys from SoCal who travel far to race generally do it for the Fall Brawl, RetroPalooza, and the Sano, but not for all of them. So just as they prepared special cars for a race with IRRA® rules, racers racing under those rules could prepare cars to race in places with different rules if they wanted to. It's possible as more guys are reaching retirement there will be more cross-country traveling to race, and even places like the UK and Japan.

 

By the way, I do want to go on the record to say that I wish the separate Retro organizations would agree on one set of rules, and maybe even classes of cars. I'm just not so certain that rules alone would necessarily facilitate increased traveling to race.

 

Eddie


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#22 Dallas Racer

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Posted Today, 03:02 PM

Traveling racers are a very small percentage of the hobby's participants. Most racers probably aren't even aware there are different rules at different tracks.

 

Blaming the lack of a unified set rules on the demise of commercial slot car racing is a causation correlation fallacy. There are so many other things that are bigger factors. Like video games.


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted Today, 03:05 PM

If we were racing to the same rule set, it would not be that difficult.

 

Haruki and his crew had the free will to do whatever they want, and they switched to IRRA® rules, over SCRRA.

I think at this point, it's just a matter of pride/stubbornness.


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Mike Swiss
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#24 Tex

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Posted Today, 03:10 PM

I'm just not so certain that rules alone would necessarily facilitate increased traveling to race.

 

I agree. Those that want to and can afford to will do so despite any minor rules differences that must be accommodated. Even if running locally under the same rules to be in effect at some far-flung fly-away race, it's still a major investment in time to prepare, quite possibly a none-too-small monetary investment, with potential work logistics to work out with the boss.

 

Has someone here not gone to a fly-away race 'cause they'd have to add some weight or because they'd have to use a different motor?


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Richard L. Hofer

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#25 bbr

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Posted Today, 03:22 PM

Commercial slot racing will die with our generation.

 

I think we should go out with a bang and make it the best we can

 

Did you see NBC showing the drone racing last weekend? That's the kind of stuff that is happening now.


Mike Low
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