27 replies to this topic

[Revtor]

Found this:

 

https://www.jameco.c...PM_2258523.html

 

1.95 each.  

 

For the price, they might be fun to experiment with?

 

 

[Pappy]

I'm sure you could have fun with them in the right kind of car. We use the .050 motors in our Formula Ford's and have a ball with them. They cost about $1.49 each.

[Bill from NH]

This spring & early summer there were some 21,000 RPM FK180 motors selling for the same price. I don't see them listed now.

[havlicek]

I've bought a bunch of these on eBay over the last few years, and that price doesn't seem all that unusual.  For example, here's an Asian seller offering them for $1.95 each (*a little less for multiples).  Spec says 43,000RPM @ 4.8V and drawing 1.45A/no load, which sounds OK...but I always cut them up and use the parts, so I wouldn't know what they run like

https://www.ebay.com...RJ0cwntdLtahiiQ

[Pappy]

The thing I noticed on all these motors is the torque rating. The one Revtor posted only has 44.24g-cm rating for torque. John's motor doesn't list a torque. The motors NSR sell's are rated 17,000 rpm and 245g-cm torque. But they cost a lot more money. https://cloverleafra...products_id=420

[MattD]

I've bought a decent supply of the 21k motors Bill mentioned in the above post.   They were loose and paint or finish was  worn some.    They run great and at $1.95 beat the stuff out of the the local 15,500 motors at our raceway or the Jaws motors we bought to try to have a more consistent motor than the local offerings   I have to  gear them down a bit to make them equal  to the lower rpm motors.   After a little break in, they get even faster.   

 

Gene Adams took one apart and noticed the brushes were mounted 90 degrees off on the brush arm,   That meant the curved area of the brush didn't fit the contour of the com until it was run in a little, but that didn't take long and they were good with no break in, so they just got better.  they came with 9 tooth pinions installed.   I was lucky enough to get two orders before they ran out.   I assume these were takeouts from some toy after they realized the brushes were mounted wrong.   

 

They are faster than any of the other motors we ran, good torque, good brakes..    If one is suspect, you toss it and only lose $2.

 

I recently got some motors rated 16K at 9.6 volts.  They had good brushes.   I figure them to maybe be 18-19K at 12 volts..   I ran one in a trial chassis the other day but didn't time it.   I may do that tomorrow.   these motors are fk 180's.  I checked these and the seller told me some company had bought their entire stock, of over a 1,000 motors.   They will get some kind of fancy sticker and turn up in slot car shops around the world for  $12 each!                                           

 

One thing to know is that some of these motors do not have solid s against carbon brushes, they only have a wiper (fingers) that brushes the com.    I've bought 5-6  different motors and taken them apart to see which brushes they have.   Seems the motors with square holes over the com have these nothing brushes and many have a brass can end bearing that is slightly bigger than  the stand FK 180 bushing/

[Ramcatlarry]

Matt,  That brush orientation is on every FK and FC sealed can motor.  Only motors with commercial car '36D' style brushes are the way 'WE' think they should be.

[MattD]

Larry,I'll see if I can find some pictures of the two different brush arrangements.    The cars with carbon brushes had the part of the brush that touches the comm rounded on the end. Looks like it should fit the comm and make agood face contact.   The first cheap motors we took apart had the curve in the end of the brush  90 degrees from setting tight against the comm.,  I figured they were placed wrong when they went thru the brush arm assembly.   I'll try to get some better pics tomorrow f this and of both kinds of brushes.

[MSwiss]

Matt,
I guess since you are not a Retro racer, you have missed the endless discussion about the "wrong" orientation of the brushes.

They are all like that and the makers have an explanation why.

It's to to aid break-in.

You would think that's counter-intuitive logic, but it's not.

It would be if the brush was pushed through a brush hood, with a wound spring, like a 16D, etc.

But it's not.

It's on a leaf spring, that swings on an arc, with the angle of the sides of the brush, constantly changing.

[MattD]

I didn't know that Mike.    Who says I know everything?   Oh that's me that says that!   I guess I didn't, but now I do!!!    

 

I looked to see if I had one of the motors with the little fingers that rub the com and Idon't have any, probably just tossed them.   If anybody is tempted to buy  these cheap motors be sure to look at the can end and that the  bushing end  of the can is the same as you are used to seeing and not a bigger brass bushing.

[Ecurie Martini]

If they follow the Mabuchi numbering system, 18130 = 130 turns of 0.18 mm wire

 

EM

[Alchemist]

John H said:

 

I've bought a bunch of these on eBay over the last few years, and that price doesn't seem all that unusual.  For example, here's an Asian seller offering them for $1.95 each (*a little less for multiples).  Spec says 43,000RPM @ 4.8V and drawing 1.45A/no load, which sounds OK...but I always cut them up and use the parts, so I wouldn't know what they run like

 

https://www.ebay.com...RJ0cwntdLtahiiQ

 

DC 3V 3.7V 4.2V 5V 43000RPM High Speed FK-180SH Carbon Brush Mini 180 HM Motor

 

That is the exact motor I used to test my 1/24 Prototype Phenolic Inline Chassis.

 

Even purchased it from the same seller!

 

I have it geared at 3:1 (haven't tried other ratios yet) and It runs very well.

 

It seems to have quite a bit of torque, from the way I saw the car accelerate out of the corner onto the straightaway.

 

To me, it's a excellent bargain for the performance fun factor!

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

Ernie

[havlicek]

Hi Ernie,

     Yep.  These are basically the "same motors" (* in general terms) as those sold for slot-racing.  However, as is the case with all end-users, the motors are spec'd for use in slot cars when ordered by the distributors for slots.  The kind of brushes and brush material, the com timing, the wind and the type of magnets used in this motor and the "similar" ones sold for slots may or may not be exactly the same, and even if they are, it's probably by sheer coincidence.  Certainly the manufacturing techniques and probably even general QC are the same.  In the case of import (*Chinese) motors for slots, some even have at least decent slash/grind-balancing and com ties, neither of which is a general thing with typical industrial motors.  Of course, this type motor has been done with MUCH hotter winds and even stronger neo magnets, but intended for "drag" use.  Those are for sure not being used for moving around a car mirror or powering a toothbrush.    Anyway, I wanted to make it clear that slot racers pay more for their versions of these motors for good reasons, and that they are NOT being ripped-off.  These are fine for us "tinkerers" though! 

[Bill from NH]

They work fine for some club & home tracks, commercial track use remains questionable.

[MattD]

Ernie have you had one of those apart to see what  the brushes look like?    Can you see thru the brush hole.  Every motor I tried that had a different style hole  then the usual slot motor had the little wipers (fingers) that just rubbed the comm and did not have brushes on  the leaf springs as we are used to.

 

It seems a lot of these motors get rated at 9.6 volts.   I kind of guess that maybe that is some standard voltage for drones or some other remote control toy.    I just guess that, I don't know for sure.

 

I looked for motors that might be 20k at 11-12 volts.   Lot of higher rpm motors at lower voltages, but I don't think they would last long when fed 12-14 volts.

 

I don't think slot dealers are ripping off anybody, John.   As always you import, warehouse, package, ship to small sellers, there's not much money left.    These are only cheap because all those middle men are bypassed.   there is a lot of handling between there and your slot track.

 

We ran these motors on the local king and they had a life at least as long as the "house" motor that now costs $12.  Plus they are faster.    I would think that for all toy applications  the basic brushes and internals are probably the same.   Might be different winds, but keeping everything else the same keeps costs down to this level  

[havlicek]

Hi Matt,

 

 

 

I don't think slot dealers are ripping off anybody, John.   As always you import, warehouse, package, ship to small sellers, there's not much money left.    These are only cheap because all those middle men are bypassed.   there is a lot of handling between there and your slot track.

 

Yep, and most importantly...the retailers (*generally...Tracks) need to make something on what is still an inexpensive product, so the markup as a percentage of cost isn't going to pay for much in 2019/US terms.  My comment was really only intended for anyone who doesn't "know", that these and the motors intended for slots may only look superficially the "same".  Again, it's not just the extra handling and "middle men", these motors are often spec'd specifically for slots.  Whereas normal production runs might be 50-100,000 or more (!?), there's no way those numbers will add-up for slots.  ***IF slot car users just happened to want a motor spec'd for other uses and could just buy some "off the shelf" or already being produced in such large numbers, there would probably be a significant cost-savings for the hobby.  For sure, I know of some of these at least that are produced specifically for slots.  Anyway, people spend way more on tires and other "consummables", with motors having long-ago become one of the less-expensive costs involved with the hobby.

*Personally, I can't get over what people spend on controllers that run $15 motors!

[Steve Deiters]

So how do these mega cheap motors run from a performance standpoint? 
 
Home tracks only? 
 
Light weight cars only?
 
12 volts or less?

[Alchemist]

 

 

Ernie have you had one of those apart to see what  the brushes look like?   

 

Hi Matt,

 

No, I have not - but should one of them stop running, I will try to remember to take it apart and take a picture of the innards!

 

Ernie

[MattD]

Steve, I can't pm you, see if you can pm me your email and I will replay to questions privately.

[Alchemist]

Hi Matt,

 

As it happened, this particular motor seized this evening.

 

I remembered that you needed pictures of the brushes.

 

This is what I was able to capture for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ernie

[MattD]

Ernie your picture  is the brush design I have found in all the FK 180 motors I've bought from slot car suppliers.     It is what I have found in all of the cheapies I have used.    I have been thru 8-10 different motors and before I committed to buy a quantity, I opened them up to see what the brush arrangement was.

 

 This pic is the other design I've run across.   This is a standard Chinese motor,probably  just a different part number than the FK 180's we are familiar with

This design has a bigger brass bushing on the can end and doesn't fit the current chassis without some opening up of the hole for the bushing.  I can't imagine the wipers for the com would last as long as a good carbon brush.

 

[Ecurie Martini]

A number of manufacturers have adopted Mabuchi's nomenclature.  Here is a link to their explanation:

 

https://www.mabuchi-...signations.html

 

It includes shape, size, brush composition, winding data etc.

 

EM

[Bill from NH]

Thanks for posting that Allan. I had saved that page before, but forgot where I placed it.

[MattD]

Thanks Alan, that makes it easy to compare.

[bradblohm]

For what it's worth, many (including me) have spent untold hours, days, and even weeks poring over those specs, then getting motors to test, and seeing if they have the decent combination of RPM, torque, carbon brush longevity for use with our slot cars.  If you think it's easy, have fun!  As John has said, sometimes there are some special winds, or other internal tweaks, that can be requested, but that adds cost as most of the motor manufacturers 100% do not care about the handful of motors we buy.  They make millions of 'em!  At least you know why slot car motors cost more, i.e. time spent testing and special requests cost money.  Then they change sub-assembly suppliers and the search begins again!