36 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

Geary's padlock build got me inspired to do some work on a project I've been looking at, but hadn't done anything about for a long time.  I kept the starting motor on my bench instead of putting it away...so I dug in.  This is one of those builds that may well result in a door-stop or just a deposit in the garbage can. 

The starting motor is something called a "Fury Micro Motor", although it's not at all "micro" by any standard.  I'm guessing that anything smaller than an old Cadillac alternator qualified back then.  So far, I did the following, and there's no turning back:

1)  The end piece that held the brushes has been chopped and to that I silver-soldered the end of a C can.  This could only be the type C can where the seam welds are right at the end, and that turned out to be one of the later (*but not the latest) Muras.  The Mura can got cut up so there was just enough to mount an end bell.  This was a fidgety and difficult task, and I'm not totally sure I hit the nail on the head, but like I said, no turning back. 

2)  The stock magnet has been tossed in favor of stacked solid neos of the N-48 variety.  Before tossing the old magnet, I just slipped the stack in the motor and ran it with the old five pole armature.  It seemed like a good idea just to be sure I wasn't doing anything "stoopid".  The motor ran well so...

3)  I dug out an arm I had found some years ago that has a little larger O.D. than the FT36D armatures and sleeved it internally to fit a 2mm shaft.  I left the sleeve long on the commutator end and it also serves to fit-up a Tradeship 36D com.  I left this part of the build open, as I can simply cut the sleeve flush and install a modern com...and I'll probably do just that.

4)  For the end bell, any Mura will bolt right on there since the fastening holes are in place with the adapter, but I think I will probably just use the Professor-Motor-supplied one, which is identical to the Muras, but without the chassis-clearance cut.

So that's what I got so far.  I have some M2 x 20mm machine screws coming, as I messed one up.  I also kept the original arm in case I want to use it as a slug for reassembling the motor laminations.  Speaking of laminations, I may remove a couple when reassembling this.  The good news here is that, if the whole mess lines-up well, adding the adapter means that the entire motor will no longer fall apart when unscrewing the lamination bolts to get at the armature.  The four lamination bolts can stay in place and the armature can be removed by just removing the new end bell.  This will be a slow build, so I may have  the thing built and ready for a test in a month or so. 

[Geary Carrier]

Very Nifty John, as always,...

[dc-65x]

Extreme Motor Mashup (EMM)!       Looks like a fun project. 

[havlicek]

Thanks guys.

 

 

 

Extreme Motor Mashup (EMM)!        Looks like a fun project.  

 

 

Yep Rick...even more so if it works!  Of course, this part is embarrassingly-wrong now that i think of it:

 

 

 

 The good news here is that, if the whole mess lines-up well, adding the adapter means that the entire motor will no longer fall apart when unscrewing the lamination bolts to get at the armature.  The four lamination bolts can stay in place and the armature can be removed by just removing the new end bell.

That would be true, if it weren't for the fact that this armature is larger than the I.D. of a C end bell. 
 

[havlicek]

I've gotten further along on this "thing". 

-Magnets are installed permanently by epoxying them in and adding a brass cover epoxied over the outside of the magnet stack.  Hopefully all that will keep them together, and they seem solid. 

-I also soldered together the laminations at the magnet end of the motor so the whole thing doesn't continually fall apart every time the motor gets opened-up.  So gaining access to the innards to install and remove the arm is fairly straightforward.  You remove the end bell with the adapter attached.  This will make spacing the arm and then installing it after winding a MUCH simpler task.

-I added a brass plate at the other end of the motor as well just so everything is even more stable when unscrewing the end bell adapter.  I used brass thinking it wouldn't mess with the very strong field, but unless I'm imagining things, it almost seems as though this made the magnets even more grabby!?  Maybe the non-magnetic brass prevents some field-leakage or something.  Anyway, it's a difficult thing to install the arm now, with it being sucked to one side or the other.  These motors are weird.

-Before final installation of the magnets, I assembled them as a unit on a piece of steel .007" shim stock.  I did this to help be sure they aren't stressed at the gap between the two field lamination stacks, but it also made the difficult task of installing them a lot easier, since they could go in as a unit.  Before epoxying them to the motor and the shim stock, I also used a rough Dremel Scotchbrite pad on the mating surfaces to be sure of the epoxy's "grab", because the nickle plating on these magnets is really slippery.

-I removed the stock oilite in favor of a bearing, which was pretty easy...the stock bearing hole is 6mm.



I want to do a set of bussbars, but came to sort of a dead-end here.  To make the bars, I first have to figure whether or not this motor would go inline or sidewinder.  It seems as though sidewinder, with the magnet pack facing the front of the car makes the most sense...but I guess it could go inline, although that would put the motor in a somewhat "offset" position.  Any suggestions as to which makes more sense, especially from those who have used these things would be great.

*As a fall back position, I could just use the Mura hardware with lead wire tabs and let the builder figure out the rest.

-Lastly, I forgot to mention that going with the Mura type end bell here made me go with a 2mm shaft for the armature.  I had to sleeve the armature lamination bore down to do this, and it all seems pretty good.  Hopefully this doesn't make balancing the arm difficult, but it seems OK checking it on the static balancer.

"Boat anchor"? "Paperweight"? "Desk ornament"?  Who knows, but I'm in too far to stop now. 

[Jaeger Team]

I love that !
A work as technically accurate as it is aesthetically appealing. I would definitely mount it sidewinder.

[havlicek]

Thanks Maurizio.  If I see more saying that sidewinder is the deal, then I can keep the current hoods and add buss bars.

[B.C.]

one of your better builds. the c can endbell absolutely makes the motor.

 

sidewinder definitely.

[Pablo]

Totally sick!     

[Geary Carrier]

Creativity makes me smile...

 

What do you get for a Gauss reading?

[havlicek]

Thanks guys
 

one of your better builds. the c can endbell absolutely makes the motor.

 

sidewinder definitely.

 

Tell you what Brian, I am sure that more effort went into this build so far than any motor I can recall...including those early billet cans.

 

 

Totally sick!     

 

 

Me...or the motor? 

 

 

Creativity makes me smile...

 

What do you get for a Gauss reading?

Thanks Geary.  I can't measure these magnets because my meter doesn't work in that range...I think.  I'll have to see, because my meter was replaced (*for free!) by the maker not that long ago, and I thought he said something about it being able to handle some of the neos.

[havlicek]

So I went with the sidewinder assumption and did a set of buss bars.  As I usually do, they're left a little long, but it's easier to cut them down than to stretch them.

[Phil Smith]

That is really clever. Thumbs up!

[havlicek]

Thanks Phil!  With the "setup" done, I could finish spacing and winding the arm, so I did up a #25 wind for this slightly larger than 36D arm.

 

The arm goes out for balancing after I weld, tie and epoxy the arm. 

[olescratch]

25! WOW!

[havlicek]

25! WOW!

 

Well, I figure this motor will more likely than not be going into a drag car (*assuming it works as well as I hope!?), but then again, slotters are funny people John...so you never know.

It's interesting that, even with the wide crowns/narrow pole gaps and the fairly large air-gap, there is significant "cog" turning the arm by hand in the setup.  So there are several possibilities here:

1) The motor will run like poopie.
2) The motor will run just "OK"
3) The motor will run well.
4) The motor will run really well
5) The motor will run really well..and turn into a roman candle.

[havlicek]

Oh and I should mention that this all works out to what I call "normal" timing (CCW as viewed from the end bell).  The above arm also has more turns than your average #25 wire armature...at 28 turns, and is timed at about 15-20 degrees advance.  My hope is that it can survive better and produce more torque at the elevated voltages of some drags.  There will certainly be enough weight to make "hooking-up" no problem.      These padlock motors are not exactly svelte!

[hiline2]

That motor would also work well as In-Line and not need to be off-set . Here is one of Roar's fantastic builds (photo borrowed) 

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[havlicek]

That is pretty cool Paul, and the height (probably) doesn't matter for a drag car!  Mine would just need a different set of bussbars (*I added some extra bends to them from what I showed above to make the whole thing fit better as a sidewinder), but otherwise could go just like the one in the picture.

[Pablo]

If they found that in your bag at an airport, they'd probably evacuate the entire city LOL

[havlicek]

If they found that in your bag at an airport, they'd probably evacuate the entire city LOL

 

 

It does have a certain "jou ne se quois".  Hopefully, the reality will live up to the expectations!

[Geary Carrier]

It'll Crank John...

[havlicek]

It'll Crank John...

 

 

Well, I have to admit that the suspense was killing me Geary.  I loosely assembled everything and didn't even space the arm just to give it a quick spin.  I didn't want to send it out for balancing if it was going to be a dog.  While it doesn't sound or feel like a C can #25, it's significantly faster at 6V than the original was at 14-15V.  I didn't want to spin it up any higher for fear of ruining something, but this bad boy sounds pretty darned good.  No doubt, Paul Pfieffer will have his work cut out for him balancing this arm, but I'll give it the "hell bent for leather" spin after it's balanced. 

as test-spun:

[idare2bdul]

Don't assume it will hook up as a drag car. This thing may have a lot of bottom end. If it doesn't hook up try a choke. Fun project!

[havlicek]

Hi Mike,

     Thanks for the info.  I figure that whoever winds up getting this motor will have to figure out the details for themselves.  Before any of the gearing and maybe choke stuff comes into play, they're going to need a chassis, which will also have a big impact on how it runs.  If it goes into a drag car "rail" with long plate aluminum or even alloy sides vs a scale type, those are two big extremes.