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Niemas Lola T70 build video


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#1 Cheater

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 04:15 AM

As good as a scale slot car gets!

 


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap





#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 07:46 AM

Good detail, but probably something limited to club and home racing rather than in a commercial setting. Rich Vecchio's club group in Oregon runs similar cars, but not quite as detailed. Other Oregon groups may run like cars.


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#3 Dave Crevie

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:15 AM

Contest quality if it were a static model. Obviously not for heavy competition.
 
Just the same, I have been thinking about adding all the detail to my Jail Door cars, since we are not racing them.

#4 Cheater

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:28 AM

Good detail, but probably something limited to club and home racing rather than in a commercial setting.


Bill, your admittedly-accurate comment seems to exude a faintly dismissive scent to me. Is Legends car racing any less admirable because they don't go as fast as the Cup cars do? Is vintage racing (as practiced in the UK) less than real racing because they are competing in extremely valuable collector cars?

The German hyper-scale cars seem to be pretty popular in that country, as evidenced by this pic. Not sure if this is the 2018 or 2019 version of the Fein Design Slotcar Meeting...

fdsm.jpg
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#5 MSwiss

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:55 AM

Contest quality if it were a static model. Obviously not for heavy competition.


I had asked Howie about this, as he has participated in races with this type of car. As I recall, they go at it hard.
 
Between respect for others' hard work, very high driver skill, and minimal de-slotting (a de-slot pretty much kills one's chance of winning), racing these works of art competitively is possible.
 
Also, notice, in the turns you don't see thick 1/2" MDF walls. Just like someone's track you have raced on. LOL.

20191028_095752.jpg


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#6 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:59 AM

Where would one find a kit such as this?

 

In the US if possible. 


Eddie Fleming

#7 Cheater

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:07 AM

Eddie,

I think you'll have to order them from Germany, as I don't know of anyone offering them in the US. Not sure anyone stocks them even in Germany, as from what I've seen elsewhere, they're produced in limited runs.

I suspect these kits are quite expensive. Here's two manufacturers and there are probably others.

http://fein-design-modell.de

https://www.niemas-racecars.de

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#8 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:41 AM

In Europe they build these incredible slot cars with hardshell bodies from scratch. They use sophisticated carbon fiber chassis with machined pieces and hand-make the carbon fiber bodies!! They use motors that are not super fast that increase the competition by being slower. They generally use hand-out motors and tires. 

They are not easy to drive fast. It requires a different skill of extracting every bit of performance from what you have. You drive these cars 10/10ths every lap and it is challenging and exhausting. The cars handle incredibly well and you push them to the limit, getting many blisters. The racing is super close, very serious, and super fun.

In some ways this is the best slot racing on the planet. They also get huge numbers of entries.
 
Michael Niemas is the king of ultimate concours slot cars. He is a perfectionist and takes his builds to new levels with each new project. His cars are true works of art. At one event I was at in Belgium he won $5,000 for his concours-winning Ferrari! There are untold hours of work involved.

He is also a great racer, super fast, and not afraid to race his ultimate creations. I have not seen anyone with the ability to build as nice a model car on the planet.
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#9 Dave Crevie

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 01:12 PM

Racing is racing. I have been in vintage racing (real cars) since it started.

The original precedent was to run the cars exactly as they were back in the day. Well, that went out the window in a hurry. Especially when the big pro teams got involved. Take any historic Trans-Am car running today, and take it through tech using the original SCCA rulebook of the time. The cars are so far off legal it isn't funny.

No matter what kind of competitive motor sport you have, people are always going to want to go faster. And holding them to the original rules and regulations is very difficult. Not to say it can't happen, but you need a very rare group of guys dedicated to the status quo.

One thing is very true. I envy that European group and wish there was something similar in this area.
 
And Mike, you know I like to run my Jail Door cars on your flat track. And will continue to. But as long as there is no organized racing for that class here, I might as well dress the cars up.
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#10 Bill from NH

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 01:43 PM

Bill, your admittedly-accurate comment seems to exude a faintly dismissive scent to me. Is Legends car racing any less admirable because they don't go as fast as the Cup cars do? Is vintage racing (as practiced in the UK) less than real racing because they are competing in extremely valuable collector cars?

The German hyper-scale cars seem to be pretty popular in that country, as evidenced by this pic. Not sure if this is the 2018 or 2019 version of the Fein Design Slotcar Meeting...

 
I wasn't at all being dismissive regarding their speed or lack there of. In fact, I didn't read about their motors, if anything about them was included.

I run some local 1/24 hardbody classes that are probably slower than this car because these classes specify an H&R 18K RPM motor.

Speaking of Legend cars, a long time slot car friend of mine, John Reimels and his son John Jr., have been racing Legends for over 15 years here in the northeast.

If I have any distain for the German cars it would be because they're not available locally in the US and any chance of them being available here is slim.

At my age, it takes more than a glossy photo presentation to excite me. We'd already be running the same type of detailed classes as the Germans, if they appealed to Americans, yet we don't. Those super detailed are quite popular in other European countries also.

Bill Fernald
 

I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 


#11 Cheater

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 02:14 PM

We'd already be running the same type of detailed classes as the Germans, if they appealed to Americans, yet we don't.


Can't agree with this statement, Bill.

The facet of 1/24 slot racing that was promoted almost exclusively in the US was speed; by the raceways and sanctioning bodies, and by the types of products that were brought to the market. There are numerous other hobbies that have promoted scale realism very successfully (I dare not mention the most obvious one... LOL!).

And look at the incredible publicity generated by the 'appeal' of David Beattie's realistic Slot Mods tracks, which have received way more exposure in recent years than all of the other aspects of 1/24 slot car racing combined.

Just like commercial slot racing, German-style hyper-scale slot cars didn't achieve success from bottom-up, grass-roots enthusiasm: it was promoted by some very smart people. It's just the latest example of what I've being saying for years: successful, visible, respected, viable leisure-time activities can only be grown from the top down via leadership, focus, and direction, something 1/24 slot car racing has never had.
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 MSwiss

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 02:26 PM

Of course, there is a market in the US for scale-looking cars. Reasonably-priced 1/32 club/home cars.
 
As far as hyper-detailed cars like in that picture, I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of all that exist are in the picture, in post #4.
 
Slot Mods? It's generated interest (which is great) because it's an expensive status symbol.
 
If everyone was as affluent as Bobby Rahal, and had plenty of room at their car condo, at the local racing country club in their area, they would have one, too. LOL.
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#13 James Wendel

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 02:55 PM

I am privileged to race at Rich's track that Bill mentioned, as well as Pelican Park and Bob Hanna's track, Sparetime Raceway in Roseburg, OR. We race exclusively Hardbody cars on privately-owned club tracks. The modeling detail of the bodies varies depending on the preference of the builder. Some guys are more into the model building than the racing, while others just want to race and go fast. We are few in number, so we can't afford to exclude either sort for lack of "purity," nor would we want to.
 
We race hard and fast and the bodies take damage. They get repaired and return to race, proudly bearing the scars of battle.  ith each repair and reinforcement they become heavier and less competitive until they are retired and replaced with a new fresh-faced Hardbody.
 
And Mike is soon opening a new club track in Cottage Grove... WOOT!!! (An embarrassment of riches.)
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You can't always get what you want...

#14 Bill from NH

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 04:35 PM

This has turned into a smoke and mirrors show. I'm done discussing it...

If someone finds detailed 1/24 scale cars like these being extensively run in the US, let me know. In the meantime if I want one, I'll buy a static model kit and construct my own chassis, like what's popular to do in 1/32.

Bill Fernald
 

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#15 n9949y

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 12:34 PM

My carbon fiber '69 612 Ferrari body from Germany as raced at Pelican Park's Can-Am series.
 Modeled after Chris Amon's car at Mid-Ohio, August 17, 1969
 
69 Ferrari 612 right rear qtr_edited-1.jpg
 
69 Ferrari 612 by hamburger stand.jpg
 
69 Ferrari 612 rt side up look_edited-1.jpg
 
69 ferrari 612, Mid Ohio, Chris Amon.jpg
 
"Systematic destruction of your works of art!"
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#16 stumbley

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 01:44 AM

Rocky Russo (RIP) said it best...."They are all doomed." Might as well look as good as they can.


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#17 NHBandit

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:36 AM

Also, notice, in the turns you don't see thick 1/2" MDF walls. Just like someone's track you have raced on. LOL.

 

The way I drive 1/2" walls won't cut it. I need a catch fence.

 

IMG_4173.JPG


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#18 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 07:33 AM

While the degree of detail and level of finish will vary, according to the desires/objectives/skills of the individual modeler, this approach to slot racing can often result in both simple rules and broad competitive fields.  A typical example (can be applied to 1/24 and 1/32 models):

 

Dimensions: wheelbase and track to scale +/- 1mm (track restrictions sometimes include or expressed as O/A width over the tires, not center to center tire measurement).

 

Motor: spec motor, upper RPM limit or unrestricted.

 

Tires: min/max diameter (no O-rings or rubber bands) tire material and color (typically black), run dry (pale green tires triggered my exodus from slots in the mid-'60s) realistic sidewalls e,g, no "hockey pucks."

 

Bodies: usually "hard" bodies, injection molded, fiberglass, resin (although I have seen some really excellent models based on vac-forms)..

 

Decoration: driver/cockpit/external detail (e.g. some suspension detail for '60s F1 cars).

 

Ground clearance, no magnets.

 

Of all of these, I believe that the wheel/tire restrictions are the most important in generating a field of competitive cars. If someone wants to push the output of a 50,000+ rpm motor through a 6mm contact patch (for a 1/32 car) - be my guest.

 

Some of the European 1/24 events are restricted to specific commercially available, e.g. Scholer, chassis. This is similar to 1/32 contests for one-make RTR cars.

 

EM


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#19 n9949y

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 12:44 PM

EM,

 

Our Can-Am specs closely adhere to your proposed rules.

 

This is my version of George Bignotti's Lola T70 with Indy quad-cam Ford Indy engine.

 

Raced '67-68 without much success. While the car was qualified well up in the starting grids, and Parnelli Jones drove it to fifth at the '67 L.A. Times Grand Prix at Riverside, Mario's 1968 adventures with it were less auspicious - early race DNFs from blown engines and oil pressure loss. I suppose the Ford DOHC first developed for Indy was not the ideal road racing engine.

 

67 Lola rt rear engine.JPG

 

68 Lola T70 Pieces, parts.jpg

 

67 Lola rt front, resize.jpg

 

68 Bignotti Lola, overhead, big tire.JPG

 

67 Lola rear.JPG

 

67 Lola rt side, low.JPG


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Todd Messinger

Remember folks, traffic lights timed for 35 MPH, are also timed for 70!

#20 Pappy

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 02:05 PM

The 1/32 NSR, Slot It and Racer/Sideways cars that I race aren't quite as detailed as these cars but are pretty damn nice. That's what attracted me to them, along with all the things you can do to them to make them faster. I'm still learning little performance tricks.


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#21 rvec

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 12:22 PM

I just came across this thread. As James mentioned, we race what I would call "True Scale" hard body cars at Electron Raceway here in Roseburg, Oregon. I have always been a fan of plastic or resin model car racing because of the detail and scale look of these with scale wheels. In my opinion, this type of racing is not suitable on super-fast, banked tracks such as a King (although we raced hard body cars on Bob Scott's King track in AZ). A high speed crash due to a rider or careless driver would surely require some serious plastic welder to fix. Frankly, I prefer shorter, flatter driver's courses. I designed and built my track with this in mind. Below is an image of Electron Raceway (lane length approx. 90 feet).

 

ElectronFinalb.jpg

 

Electron Raceway.jpg

 


Below are a few examples of the cars we run

 

512_Ron2.JPG

 

917_Rich.JPG

 

GT40_2.jpg

 

GT1_Rich.jpg

 

GT1_Ron.jpg

 

SC_Bob.jpg

 

SC_Ron.jpg

 

SC_Ron2.jpg

 

Trials_Rich.jpg












They look nice but how do they run? Below is a video of the final heat of one of our GT1 races.



 


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Rich Vecchio


#22 sportblazer350

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 05:40 PM

Everytime i see a post with these fantasically detailed Euro cars all i can say is- i wish i was part of it!  I have raced several types of 1/24 scale hardbody cars and i really enjoyed it, mostly due to the scale detail of the cars, right down to the wheel inserts, such as by Scaleauto and BRM.  And as told by Howie, when you race slower hardbody cars that are evenly matched, it is grueling and fun. And i like what is being raced out in Oregon as well. As for not racing jail door cars- we here in New Jersey have started to race them again, and i am having a blast! I can imagine how slot racers felt racing jail door cars after racing all of the 36D type rtr factory cars, thingies, etc from the mid 60's era- what an improvement! And the bodies still offered plenty of scale detail.

 

  Oh yeah- we here in NJ are also racing mid 1960's era 36D powered cars. And as mentioned above, even though we are racing basically as close to a real 1965 era car as possible, the cars are getting tuned to go fast, so it looks like flexi car racing! ackkk!! I prefer the slower speeds, so i just do my laps, enjoy the old cars.

 

  Here are a few pix of various hardbody cars i have raced. Not as detailed as the Euro cars, but we did have fun with them, and no- not much body damage once we learned how to properly tune and race them. All of these cars were built with H&R Racing brass chassis and plastic model kit bodies, 25k motors. 

 

100_3654.jpg

 

IMG_0867.jpg

 

Lola T70  #7.png


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#23 Dave Crevie

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 09:11 AM

Great stuff. I love that you guys are using inserts in your wheels. Really adds to appearance. I was racing with a group that also

used the H&R chassis, perfectly fine for a small track. We ran on an oval, mostly vintage NASCAR, jalopies and old school dirt

modifieds. But also sports cars on a routed road coarse intended for 1/32nd scale. Close quarters for passing. 

 

IMG_0218.JPG

 

IMG_0370.JPG

 

IMG_0201.JPG

 

003.JPG

 

 

 

We also ran sprint cars and Indy roadsters made from resin bodies I cast.

 

011.JPG

 

IMG_0539.JPG

 

The rears on the roadsters don't start out that diameter. These are worn down from all the sideways turns. 

They start at 1 3/16ths dia.


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#24 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 09:43 AM

Great stuff. I love that you guys are using inserts in your wheels. Really adds to appearance.

 

 

View from the bench of a long time rivet counter:

 

If you get the wheels right -  size, appearance, tire diameter and width, you're more than halfway to a good model.  If they're not right, nothing else matters.

 

EM


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#25 Dave Crevie

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:26 AM

As a many time winner of model railroad model contests, I am as much a stickler for detail as anyone. But some

concessions must be made to keep the car usable. The trick is to find the balance. I tried to make wheel inserts

mandatory in the group where I raced the cars I posted, but there was just too much push-back from the commercial

racers in the group. Some didn't even want drivers mandatory. I even offered the resin cast inserts and drivers free,

since I was casting them. I just couldn't convince them.







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