14 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

     Every once in a while, I like to push myself to do something harder.  This is the result of one of those times.  The setup is a minty last generation Mura can, mated to a later Mura end bell.  The end bell was a one-up/one down older type, so I just made up some bussbars.  I also added some Mura "B" plates to stiffen up the end bell some.

 

 

    For the arm, I did a #27 double wind.  While I have done some triples and I think even a quad or two, I'm pretty certain that this is the biggest wire gauge double I've done.  While winding doubles is always a little more difficult, wire this big really crowds the heck out of the com tabs when doubled, so brazing becomes MUCH more difficult.  The arm meters perfectly, so it all worked out just fine.  This will make for one screaming drag motor.

[Geary Carrier]

Very fine looking double John, considering that even single 27 is no cake walk...

[Geary Carrier]

Very fine looking double John, considering that even single 27 is no cake walk...

[Dave Crevie]

I was never able to prove to myself that a triple was better than a double wind. IMHO, the double is the way

to go for a really hot motor. 

[havlicek]

Very fine looking double John, considering that even single 27 is no cake walk...

 

 

Thanks Geary.  The com connections here are really where the trouble is.

 

I was never able to prove to myself that a triple was better than a double wind. IMHO, the double is the way

to go for a really hot motor. 

Maybe Dave.  Some here have said that doubles serve no purpose at all performance-wise.  I myself am not so sure at all, and think doubles work well, but they may be of more use in certain kinds of racing.  For vintage applications, it often comes up that people want a double to install in a lead-sled for that "old-school" thing.  The triples I've done are absolute screamers, but even with lighter gauge wire, the difficulty goes up some more.  Anyway, when I do get asked to do a double wind, it's usually more like a double #29 or a #28/29 mixed double.  #27 wire doubled (*four at each com tab) is getting close to the limit of how much you can fit on the tabs.

In the past, I usually kept the timing down on big wire arms and of course multi-winds.  Because of people's requests, I've crept-up to as high as 20 degrees advance, and this one is just under 20 degrees...maybe around 18 degrees or so.  Resistance is down to just over .030 ohms, which is waaay down there.  Like I said, it'll be a screamer.

[Bill from NH]

In the days of old (1973-78), it was very common to run 27/28 double arms at tracks with power packs, because they drew less amps than most singles. Nobody was winding 27 & 28 singles for C-cans during this period, unless you wound them yourself. Champion sold blanks with pre-set timiing & would finish & balance them by mailorder. I had a 26S arm that never impressed me, so I sometimes ran Grp, 22 arms at the power pack tracks. All these .510 arms had 10-15 degrees of timing.

[havlicek]

 

 

I had a 26S arm that never impressed me

 

#26 wire is an excellent choice when "finishing the race" is important.    Of course, there almost limitless combinations of winds (turn counts and patterns, singles or doubles) and timing, lamination profiles, air-gaps and magnet choices etc., so any wire gauge can be great or not-so-great for any given racing and/or track type and power.  It's all good!

[Bill from NH]

The 26S I had was from Mura. It didn't run right wherever I ran it. It had little to do with how it was set up. It was always in one of my BB setups  with Champion can, Mura endbell, blue or white dots, & a .530 hole. That was pretty much the standard open class racing setup in the '70s. Every arm is "supposed" to run good, but some don't. Once I tried it a few times, I found better running alternatives. 

[havlicek]

The 26S I had was from Mura. It didn't run right wherever I ran it. It had little to do with how it was set up. It was always in one of my BB setups  with Champion can, Mura endbell, blue or white dots, & a .530 hole. That was pretty much the standard open class racing setup in the '70s. Every arm is "supposed" to run good, but some don't. Once I tried it a few times, I found better running alternatives. 

I'm just trying to figure out why you included the note that you had a 26 that you didn't like Bill.  The rest of your recollection is fine and it's good for people relatively new to the hobby (*er...sport, or maybe "spobby") to get some perspective.  Anyway, if you were saying you didn't think much of #26 wire in general...or that you were just recalling that one particular 26 arm you had was a dud wasn't/isn't clear.  If it's the former, then like I said, there are way too many variables involved to just write-off any wire gauge.  If the latter, then that's cool.

[Dave Crevie]

Most of my singles were done with 26 gauge wire. Mostly because the local radio shop where I bought my magnet wire only carried

26, 28, and 31 gauge. I really only started dabbling in doubles because I couldn't get anything bigger than the 26, and the wars were

about building the highest revving motors. At the time I was the only one in my area to try it. If my Dad hadn't been working part time

for a motor and generator rebuilder, I would never have known you could do that. Of course, I didn't tell anyone I was doing it. I needed

that edge.  

[Bill from NH]

I'm just trying to figure out why you included the note that you had a 26 that you didn't like Bill.  The rest of your recollection is fine and it's good for people relatively new to the hobby (*er...sport, or maybe "spobby") to get some perspective.  Anyway, if you were saying you didn't think much of #26 wire in general...or that you were just recalling that one particular 26 arm you had was a dud wasn't/isn't clear.  If it's the former, then like I said, there are way too many variables involved to just write-off any wire gauge.  If the latter, then that's cool.

John, i'm not complaining about 26 ga. arms in general, just the one I purchased to run on some low powered transformer tracks. On paper, it should have run fine, but it didn't. At Jewett's in Westbrook, ME & at East Hartford, CT it was a mid-pack arm at best. I do recall winning a race on the Hampton Beach, NH AMCR Orange, but I don't recall what I ran there.it was reconditioned by Joel several times, but its performance never picked up..Other than Mura, nobody was winding a 26 ga.. arms during this period. Based on my poor performance with the one I had, I decided not to try another. I had other alternatives, besides, that one looked like it had been wound in the dark.

[Jesse Gonzales]

Mura did produce 26 gauge wire arms plus the little known group 40 arm that was killer on American orange tracks, run them with big gaps and geared to pull stumps and they would bedevil guys running 25's and 27/28's. i wound some 26's using thorp blanks that surprised a lot of guys for shorter tracks. 26 wire backed up with either 27 or 28 would make really good king track motors back in the day if you dodged the comm shrapnel toward the bank after ten laps.

 

Jess Gonzales

[Bill from NH]

I still have a new Bill Steube 26/27 that I got for qualifying  on an American king, but never sat up.

[Jesse Gonzales]

Mr. Bill was a real craftsman, so was his son Billy. You have a nice bit of history so treasure it accordingly. armatures wound and finished by the old masters deserve a place of honor on our shelves, i have them from all the old biggies except Bob Kean, of all of them i treasure my Pooch 24 and my Steube 27/28 the most. Never raced, just run at the real speed & sport for kicks.

 

Jess Gonzales

[Bill from NH]

I bought most of my Steube arms from Ron Granlee. Items I could  not get at the local raceway, Modelville Hobby, I emailed from Speed & Sport or sometimes Parma. They both provided exceptional mailorder service during the 70's.