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Simple question for IRRA® racers


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#1 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:50 AM

I have a simple question for all racers who race under the IRRA® rules set.  Do you or do you know of anyone you race with that uses any motor other than the JK Retro Hawk. These motors would include the Falcon 7, TSR D3, and the Professor Motor options.

 

I would like for racers to answer for three days. Please do not respond if you wish to discuss or argue the merits of these motors or start any other kind of ill will that would result in this thread being closed. For the most part this should be a yes or no answer with maybe a short comment if needed.

 

Remember, this is for racers who race under the IRRA® rules set.


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Bobby Robinson RN

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#2 Racer36

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:08 AM

Those motor options, as well as Puppy Dogs, are still available to racers in the Penn-Ohio Series. I know of two guys that show up the odd time with PDs, and one guy who has used Falcon 7s several times. We are also able to use any version of the RH.


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#3 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:28 AM

No.


Eddie Fleming

#4 Ron Sullo

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:31 AM

No.


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#5 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:32 AM

IRRA® rules set, please.


Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

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#6 Racer36

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:35 AM

Penn-Ohio runs under IRRA® rules, but with those motor options.


Dennis Dominey

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#7 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:49 AM

Unaltered IRRA® rules set.


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Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#8 Paul5097

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:50 AM

I've seen an occasional Falcon 7 in RMRRA.


Paul Murr

#9 Shiggy

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:04 AM

We run IRRA® Can-Am rules with the exception of allowing the Pro Slot 4007 motor with 9/27 gearing.

No more searching for that one fast motor and they remain competitive for many races.


D. "shiggy" Person

#10 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:07 AM

Let's please limit our answers to IRRA® unaltered rules set. 

 

Thank you.


Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#11 Racer36

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:14 AM

Maybe if you clarified why you are asking this you could save some of us time and effort.


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Dennis Dominey

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#12 Noose

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:21 AM

Some guys here run TSRs on the smaller tracks such as Hillclimbs.


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#13 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:22 AM

If you choose not to answer that's fine. This really shouldn't take much time or effort. I'm simply asking if you race under an unlatered IRRA® rule set, if you or anyone you race with uses anything other than the JK Retro Hawk motor.  Again, should require only a yes, no answer with maybe a slight comment if needed.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.


Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#14 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:42 AM

Yes.


Larry D. Kelley, MA
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#15 MSwiss

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:52 AM

Maybe if you clarified why you are asking this you could save some of us time and effort.

 

Exactly... the OP can save himself a bunch of aggravation by getting to the point.

He is an experienced racer, so he's not looking for advice.


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#16 Shooter7mustang

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 11:09 AM

Yes, Falcon 7 old-school yellow label.


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#17 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 11:10 AM

I have used the Professor Motor variation in the past and would use it again if necessary. Before the RH I used the Falcon 7 and while it had decent speed, it never had enough brakes for me. 


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#18 John Streisguth

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 11:17 AM

No.


"Whatever..."

#19 DOCinCanton

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 11:39 AM

I have run the TSR motor in two or three IRRA® races in the last six months. I found that a couple of my very old TSR motors were still competitive. They have a bit more brakes than the JK RH motor.


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#20 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:34 PM

My hope was in asking this question was to have a discussion about IRRA motors without getting the thread closed.  Now I'm thinking this won't last for three days as I had hoped.

 

I will say I have been surprised that some have responded yes to seeing or using another motor besides the JK Retro.  I haven't seen anything else here in the south in years or have I seen any at the R4 or the Nolen enduro race held at Tom Thumb.  It would be interesting to know if these motors have won or been on the podium at any races they are being used at.  In following the other premier races here on the blog I have not seen anyone using anything other than the JK Retro, to the best of my knowledge.

 

My point is that out of four available motors for use in IRRA rules set racing it seems to me by what I've seen that there is not a viable option to the Retro Hawk.  I always felt that the TSR motor was the best mini can motor as far as being consistent but like the other three options, they are just not competitive with the Retro Hawk speed wise.  If they were we would be seeing them in races but we are not.

 

The IRRA communicated that the problems with the Retro Hawk had been fixed so now motor submissions would be closed unless there was a need to reopen them.  I personally don't see that the problem has been fixed.  The two speed motors are just as available now as always as well as many that are just not competitive speed wise.  Yes, I know these are $13.00 motors and all that so please lets not get into all that again.

 

The problem is cost and time.  When you multiple $13.00 times all the motors we traveling racers buy, and those who are serious local racers, the cost of this cheap motor gets very expensive.  And the time to break in that many motors....whatever method you choose, is time consuming with track testing added to that.  It doesn't matter how deep your pockets are, It's just wasted money and time.  There is no telling how many motors I have in a huge box under my bench that are not raceable.

 

So, along comes a motor with some pretty good claims.  The brakes for 5000 laps peaked my interest, not to mention it's a dollar cheaper!  Now I know claims are just claims until proven.  So with no real viable alternative to choose from why not give this motor a look?  This man who I don't know and have never met is trying to do something good for the hobby we all love.  He's invested in importing a motor that might be better than what we have now.  Who knows if it is?  Only one way to tell.  So far this man has developed several new and affordable products and I for one am thankful that someone is willing to invest their time and money to help this hobby.  The motor may be a total POC.  If so, so be it.  But it at least deserves a chance. 

 

I've been writing this while at work and it has taken about an hour and a half.  I've worked this in between patients who are dealing with real life cancer issues.  So before I get crucified for what some would consider radical views lets remember we are playing with toy cars for fun.  Life is not always fun for some. 

 

I hope that a civil discussion can continue.

 

 

Thanks for your time and interest.


Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#21 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:42 PM

One last point about the cost of running big races.  I was offered the chance to buy 92 Retro Hawks at a race.  These were leftovers!  The racer made the main.


Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#22 John Streisguth

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:05 PM

FWIW, it doesn't seem to matter what the price of the motor is, or if it's "sealed" or open for building.  There are people who will spend whatever amount of money and time it takes to win.  Unless you're willing to step up to that, you're kidding yourself about being on a "level playing field".   

I've only ever had one "two speed", although I have had ones that have to run about 10 laps before they really get going.  It is what it is, there is no perfect solution to motors.  

And I personally don't like hand-out motors, because in the last 4 or 5 years I've had too many duds (including one that was mis-marked for polarity...) which is why I no longer run GTC at the big races

 

IMO, having another motor option would NOT be good for racing.  We saw what happened when the motors changes, a lot of people got stuck with motors they could no longer run. Unless the retro hawk is either no longer available, or the manufacturer makes a horrible batch, at least with the current situation everyone has the same issues to deal with.  


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"Whatever..."

#23 Tim Neja

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:10 PM

The real problem, adding to any expense for racing is simple.  NO matter WHAT motor you pick, if it 's allowed, the DEEP pocket serious racers will spend WAY more money than the average racer to get that "magic bullet"!! ALL electric motors have variences in performance. Doesn't matter if you build them -- or you buy the FK style sealed motors. There will ALLWAYS be a variance in performance.  

The only way to limit the $$ expended to race--is to use HAND OUT motors -- and LIMIT the # of motors that can be bought at the race to 2-3.  It's truly FAIR for everyone with this system, and it puts the hands of fate sometimes into the equation. But it DOES keep the $$ spent to a minimum.  The SCRRA has run for several years now, hand out races at some of our largest events. It has NOT limited the participation, but HAS allowed many racers to feel they have a chance to win within this system, and it DOES limit the $$ spent.  Amazingly,  looking at those races, the SAME fast guys always gravitate to the top of the leader board!! BUT-there have been exceptions to that rule and some outside the norm fast guys have won by getting that magic bullet in their hand out!! It's all very fair and STILL FUN--and enjoyment is had by ALL the racers. And it HAS brought the expense of racing down for these races!!

FWIW
 


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#24 brnursebmt

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:21 PM

But to be honest, my main complaint is wanting a better motor. I buy a lot of motors myself, more than I should but it's my choice. If this motor is better it would keep people like me and many others from buying so many. No need to replace a motor so that people would get stuck with them, just make another option available.


Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#25 John Streisguth

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:33 PM

Impossible to make another motor that is exactly equal to an existing one.  If it's better, everyone will get rid of what they have and buy them.  If not, nobody will use them.

As we've seen, various batches of the retro hawk are different.  And it won't stop anyone from buying a large number, since as with anything produced in large quantities, there will be variations that result in some being better than others.  I respect what you're looking for , but IMO, the reality is it will not change things one bit.


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"Whatever..."





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